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AR Dilemma - Need Help!

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by polizei1, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    Ok guys, I'll try and keep this short...

    Anyway, my friend wants me to start shooting with him, which is awesome because I love to shoot, but have yet to own a firearm. I'm in the Marine Corps, so it's natural that I shoot, and I do enjoy it! So, I'm wanting my first AR...

    I've done research, but I'm still not quite sure what exactly I want/need. There are a ton of brands and a ton of different parts. My choice is easy in the Corps, whatever they give me is what I'll use! :rofl:

    So here it is, I want an AR for home defense, but MORE for shooting competition. Now, the competition that I will be shooting is like this:

    200 yards standing
    200 yards sitting
    300 yards prone
    600 yards prone

    So, naturally I need a rifle that is well built to shoot out to those distances. I've been looking over a few brands and whatnot, but I think I want to build one instead...(well, not really, just purchase an upper/lower). I should note that I DO want picitanny rails, and I need iron sights (flip up).

    My price range is ~$1k-1,100. Now, I KNOW this will be HARD to meet! I'm NOT looking for a MATCH GRADE rifle, just one that will be able to compete with.

    I've been looking at BCM, LMT, and Noveske (but those are too much, ha). Now, this is where I'm confused...I was looking to buy an upper and a lower (complete) and just piece them together, preferably matching brands. I was talking to my friend and he said I need a long barrel to achieve the distance accurately. He said 16" would be too short, which is what I was looking at. I'm assuming I would also want a 1:7 twist, no? I'll be using probably 5.56 75gr ammo.

    So, I need some help...build me an AR if you can! I'm open to suggestions. And if I'm completely off the mark with anything, remember I'm still a noob. :tongueout:

    Thanks,
    -Cody
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  2. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    DMPS free float upper with a stainless 20" free float barrel and flat top. Not sure what it's called... varminter or something... that is a premier precision upper. There are others for sure. Look on the DPMS website and find something you like.
     

  3. Oohrah

    Oohrah

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    For the longer ranges a quicker twist barrel for heavier bullets, maybe 1 in 7.
    1 in 9 like my two are it seems favors bullets around 55 grains, and neither a 600 yard anything. Up to 200 and streaches to 300, before the cone of dispersion increases a lot, and wind is probmatic with the lighter bullets.
     
  4. Taykaim

    Taykaim NRA Member

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    I know you're wanting an AR, but for the longer ranges you're talking about, have you considered an M1A, or even an FNAR (or the Winchester one)?

    Not knocking the ARs, but for the price of an AR that's a tack driver at 600 yards, you can get a nice semi auto in a cartridge with more reach out and touch, not to mention very accurate actions (in the M1A and the FNAR).
     
  5. Oohrah

    Oohrah

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    Oops skipped over what you expected to pay for your rifle. I am not a huge fan of the AR, and bought a couple because I could. The first was a Bushy M4 type, lawman with a heavy barrel. This purchase was a couple of years ago, before things turned scarce. I was able to purchase through a dealer friend at around $868. The second is untested. A Marine brother in the guard was kind enough to show me his complete lower he had added an engraved Marine emblem on the right side of the mag well. Didn't like the price of $50 for the EG&A, so searched around for a lower that one could be put on. Found a place called Spikes Tactical who sold lowers and would add what I wanted for $5 more if you bought the lower from them. They happened to have complete lowers on sale and with the EG&A added was $255. Next week searched for an upper and wanted a bull barrel. R Guns had a Panther pro low 16" Bull barreled complete upper for $377 in chrome molly. Would have perfered stainless and 1 in 7 instead of 9. However, if this sucker don't shoot, I will try to back engineer it and add a floating fore end. If not, what definately works is a rebarrel with a Nor Pac barrel. I treat both of these rifles as fun, not serious work horses. They do stop working in wet climates just as they did in early Nam years. We had a two day shoot a few winters back, and it never did stop raining during that time. A mixture of Garands, FAL, M14s, bolt run SMILE, and a blow back 22 LR semi auto. All four of the ARs went down, and need to be worked over to continue their function. The other one that went down was the .22 LR. That's life. The shop around AR came to around $650 when postage and background was added. Thank you for your service!
    Semper Fi 57-65 Recon all the way !!!!:supergrin:
     
  6. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    Thanks for the responses! Tay, I would LOVE an M1A, but I've been looking around and can't seem to find even used ones for sub $1,500, and that's just stock, and used...My buddy has a match grade M1A, but he has over $3,500 in his.

    I would prefer a Springfield M1A over an AR though.

    Edit* A Springfield M1A in a Walnut stock is one of my dream weapons...if you can find me one, let me know. I would much rather have that than an AR!

    And Semper FI Oohrah.

    -Cody
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  7. djegators

    djegators

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    Take your time, do your research, and get the AR you really want the first time. For me that would be a Noveske Recce low profile upper ($1400)...you then could put a BCM complete lower for about $350. Maybe could do a similar BCM upper for a little less. Spend the extra now, and have the AR that be accurate, run hard, and last a lifetime.


    Edited to add: if you want better performance at longer distance, maybe consider stainless barrel in an 18" SPR setup.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  8. ottomatic

    ottomatic

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    Since you said that this weapon would be used in some sort of competition, what are THEIR rules for rifles: barrel length, sights, weight, modifications?
    You may want to check those first. Also what are other people using? (especially those that are doing well!)
    If the rules are relatively open, remember more barrel and more sight radius generally equals more accuracy.
     
  9. buyobuyo

    buyobuyo

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    Which class are you trying to shoot in with your competitions? Service Rifle or Match Rifle? To be legal in Service Rifle, you need something that looks like a standard 20" A2 or A3 w/ carry handle on the outside. However, you can (and want to) run a free-float handguard, NM-spec sights, and a 1:8" or faster twist in a hHBAR contour, no bull, so you can shoot 75+ gr bullets @ 600.

    RRA, DPMS, Bushmaster, and others all make CMP/NRA Service Rifle class legal guns, and they run around 1100 to 1300 dollars. However, unless you find something in-stock at a local dealer, expect to wait 2-3 months, minimum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  10. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    According to their website, "Permitted rifles include any safe centerfire rifle chambered in .223 to.35 cal, with metallic sights, suitable for being shot at up to 600 yards."

    That's the only requirements. And I've been told a few guys shoot AR's, but mostly M1A's. I actually have yet to go to a match, so I cannot personally comment. It seems like it's more like a friendly competition with some cash prizes, nothing serious, though they are shot to NRA rules.

    Oh and I know Noveske gives military discounts, does anyone else?

    -Cody
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  11. djegators

    djegators

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    Rainier Arms also gives military discounts, and they sell Noveskes slightly cheaper than Noveske, with lower shipping.
     
  12. kabob983

    kabob983 "Mostly" Dead

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    600 yards with iron sights = wowsah...

    For competition I too would consider a .308 over a .223, but either "should" work. Yeah, you're going to be paying through the nose for an M1A, it's just the nature of the beast. If you do go with an AR and iron sights are required I'd probably get an A2 upper (if available) to save some weight.

    Alot of mfrs and shops give military/LEO discounts, not sure of exactly who that is.

    Methinks you need to ditch this "accurate" rifle idea and show up at your first competition with a WSAR.
     
  13. djegators

    djegators

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    PS: me thinks you can get a standard M1A in your price range, you may not need the national match for your applications. Not as good a choice for home defense as an AR perhaps.
     
  14. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    Thanks everyone, I think I'm going to look for an M1A and see if I can find one...I wouldn't mind an AR, but I have to say I've been lusting after an M1A for a long time. Hopefully I can find a decent one within my price range.

    And what's the big deal about 600 yards with iron sights?

    Thanks,
    -Cody
     
  15. buyobuyo

    buyobuyo

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    From what I can tell, most people don't shoot out past 100 yards on a regular basis, so 600 yards is a mind boggling. Especially with iron sights given the proliferation of optics, especially on the AR platform where iron sights are relegated to backup duty.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  16. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    Ah ok. We have to qualify annually at 200,300, and 500 meters (with iron sights) in the Corps, so it's natural.

    -Cody
     
  17. rkwrichard

    rkwrichard

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    Since you have to qualify every year you may want to stay with a gun that will be as close to your service rifle as possible. In your price range take a look at the Rock River Arms A4 NM (National Match) rifle. This rifle would be legal and competitive in almost any rifle competition you might want to enter. It is very accurate with a target trigger and has a removable carry handle so you could mount optics if you choose to go that direction or for hunting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  18. Taykaim

    Taykaim NRA Member

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    I stand by the idea that a a good 308 is going to serve you not just better, but much better in the 600 yard range than an equally good 223. For the 200 yards your choice is not such a big deal, my franken-AR's handle 200-300 just fine. That said, I only use the basic carry handle peep sights, I have not used flip ups or anything.


    However, back to the 308 options. I am in no way affiliated with any of these people selling these items, but a few minutes on gunbroker found me some deals on M1As, FNARs, SX-ARs, which I would choose for 600 yard shooting over most 223s.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159944062

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159880028

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=160648984

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=160242606

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=160014512


    The M1A's are still not cheap, or you could go one step back and get a match grade Garand instead.


    Again, not knocking the AR, I like them just fine, but for long range I do not find them more than adequate.
     
  19. HAIL CAESAR

    HAIL CAESAR Senior Member

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    RRA N4

    Or go with a White Oak rifle set up specifically.
     
  20. thisaway

    thisaway

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    If you look carefully on the 'net, you may be able to find a Colt rifle in the $1000-$1200 range.