AR-15 Pistol for Patrol Rifle

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by hudson69, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. hudson69

    hudson69

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    Hola,
    I am an investigator at a small agency. When I was a Patrol Officer I carried my AR-15 as soon as they authorized it. Now that I am mostly out of uniform I've been trying to set up a smaller, lighter active threat response kit. If it's light and all in one bag I'm more likely to take it with me and not be lazy (complacent).

    I had posted about setting up an AR-40 (pistol/SBR) to complement my duty G23, but this is currently cost prohibitive. My next thought was to make my Ruger PCC (.40) a little more tactically oriented but then I came across a PSA AR-15 pistol build kit. The price was spot on and, with ammunition manufacturers offering 5.56 specifically with the SBR and LE in mind (Hornady SBR TAP ammo) I'm now going this route.

    So my question is this: Is anyone else using either an AR pistol or SBR as their Patrol Rifle? If so, how are you setting it up and what ammo are you using?
     
  2. Newcop761

    Newcop761 CLM

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    I'm not a patrol officer.

    I'm issued an SBR (FN M16A3) 10" barrel. Aimpoint Micro H1, Insight WMLx, and a sling.


    My area is crazy. I'm keeping a Maxim Defense PDX pistol in my POV. I put a EOTech XPS, Insight WML, and a Magpul MS3 sling on it.

    A 5.56 with a pistol brace is going to better than a 9mm or .40 PCC. I DO have an AR9 PCC I built for the wife at home, but she's not responding to anything besides trouble inside our house.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Gombey

    Gombey

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    One of my patrol sergeants has an AR pistol for patrol, he’s also the range master.

    I have a biggish purchase pending, but next year I plan on buying an AR pistol...once it’s approved. Lol
     
  4. familyman357

    familyman357 I'd be more cynical, but my apathy prevents it.

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    Running around with a rifle or pistol at an active shooter / threat scene in plain clothes sounds like a great way to get shot, probably a lot. I wouldn’t respond in anything less than full uniform.

    If you use the PSA kit, I would replace all the small parts with ones from a vendor like White Oak Armament. It seems like a lot of the complaints about the PSA kits involve stuff like the trigger group, springs, etc.
     
  5. collim1

    collim1

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    Forbidden at my agency unless on SWAT team. Not because of the brace, but minimum barrel length is 16”.

    I wouldn’t care for a pistol brace on a patrol rifle. For your case I would want a bare bones, light as possible AR15. It’s going to spend long periods of tine in your trunk so I don’t want an optic and batteries to worry about.

    A pencil barrel A2 upper. Irons are hassle free. Lightweight. I would have a Streamlight Protac rail mount flashlight and a single point sling.

    As simple and lightweight as it gets.

    This day and age I would not want a pistol caliber carbine.

    ID for yourself if a big one also. You need a vest carrier that is marked up with police front and rear. As big of letters as possible. A badge on a chain around your neck as well.

    I would not lose a lot of sleep about active shooter scenarios from a detective’s position. Most of the situations are over before the third and fourth uniform arrive, much less before the plain clothes guys start arriving. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have a plan and some gear, but it’s not really a priority for you.

    Your day will start after all the medivacs have been done.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  6. blueiron

    blueiron

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    Does your agency allow you to carry whatever you prefer? What about ammo selection?

    If your State allows it, get a SBR Colt Commando with the 11.5 inch barrel. The $200 tax will be tax deductible and you have a Colt warranty.

    It might be cheaper to build something, but I would never carry a parts gun as a cop. The liability is too great.
     
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  7. SAR

    SAR CLM

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    Our Department went to HK MP-7’s to fulfill this niche. Cool gun if you can get your agency to buy it.
     
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  8. pgg00

    pgg00

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    I use an 11.5inch BCM SBR. Also has a can on it.
     
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  9. OLY-M4gery

    OLY-M4gery

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  10. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    Take it with you? How are you going to secure it when interviewing someone and you can’t watch your car. Trunk is not answer or that active shooter might be using your weapon instead of you.

    If it’s in a locking device in the car, size isn’t a big issue.

    Or is it , that you want to hide the fact from your colleagues that you are carrying it.

    Either way, a simple answer is just take your AR and separate the upper and lower. Put it in a small gym bag or case.

    Just put it together as you respond. Not ideal but doable.
     
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  11. hudson69

    hudson69

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    Hola,
    Thank you all for your responses. I do have a plate carrier with POLICE panels front and back, that I would be putting on. It is outfitted with everything that used to be in my active shooter bag.

    I currently have a lockbox in the cargo area (truck vault?). I could probably fit a shotgun and full size rifle in it. Any rifle/pistol should be secure enough while I am away from my Explorer.

    Kit guns are not an issue at my agency. Everything gets inspected. I've used PSA in the past but for duty carry I can see upgrading certain parts.

    The only mods(?) I am planning for is a single point sling, good iron sights, a Vortex red dot (I have experience and feel that they are tough), Magpul grip and handguard, and a light (not sure which one).

    We can use any LE ammo so that will be another consideration since the barrel is short so flash and bang is greater. A flash can will probably be added but, again, this is new territory so research and input would be appreciated.
     
  12. Rezdawg

    Rezdawg

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    I am issued a Colt 935 (Commando) it’s a 11.5 SBR. It goes everywhere with me while on the clock including on cross reservation deployments.

    It takes up next to zero space and is a fighting rifle. I do own a PSA pistol with an SBA3 while that resides in my truck/camaro when I’m not working. I do not think that I will ever carry it as my primary long weapon baring SHTF deployments is Active Shooter or Acts of Domestic Terrorism.

    It would be nightmare to retain if someone wanted to take it from me. The soft plastic of the SBA3 can be used for methods taught by the USMC but it would be akin to driving nails with a pillow.

    I would apply for an agency exemption to the NFA and outfit a 10.5 or even a 14.5 rifle. Or if you are that stubborn that you are going to set up a pistol then put a can on it. Trust me the extended LOP is worth the ability to fire inside a building or vehicle.

    Also the Protac 2 is a very nice light, but I’d also look at the Cloud Defensive offerings.

    If you are thinking that you need something compact and not as effective as it should be go with an 8 inch.


    Does your plate carrier contain medical equipment like an IFAK or Blowout kit?
     
  13. Desert Kraut

    Desert Kraut

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    I'm not now, nor have I ever been in law enforcement, but are any departments carrying/using bullpup rifles? They seem to be a good choice for urban usage.
     
  14. Desert Kraut

    Desert Kraut

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    I'm not now, nor have I ever been in law enforcement, but are any departments carrying/using bullpup rifles? They seem to be a good choice for urban usage. Tavor comes to mind.

    Sorry, but my posts seem to be delayed to the point that I end up reposting.
     
  15. Newcop761

    Newcop761 CLM

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    The now defunct US Customs Service issued Steyr AUG for a time.

     
  16. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

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    My only problem with PSA AR stuff is I didn’t buy enough of it, last year.
     
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  17. OLY-M4gery

    OLY-M4gery

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    An AR-Pistol is not as "usable" as a rifle/carbine. The brace is not a shoulder stock.

    Short barrels get louder the shorter they are. When the local SWAT guts went to Colt 10.5 barrel AR's, they also had to initially go to DOUBLE hearing protection. So then they went to "cans". The whole argument of shorter barrel being more "handy", goes out the window when you add the length back with a "can".

    .224/5.56 is velocity dependent for terminal effect. you lose a lot of velocity by getting rid of 5.5" of barrel.

    You want a AR easier carry about, disconnect the upper from the lower. That will be just as easy to tote around as an AR-Pistol. It will take 3 seconds to put back together.

    -----------

    To build an AR-pistol an AR-pistol lower receiver is needed. Putting a pistol length upper on a "regular" lower mean a SBR has been created and it would need to be registered under NFA rules.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  18. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

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    I completely understand what you are trying to do, it’s not a horrible idea. Just understand you lose a fair amount of capability not having a real stock.

    Ideally, you would be much better off with a factory SBR though. I understand cost is an issue, but you are much better off going that route.

    https://www.provenoutfitters.com/fn-15-patr-crbn-10-5in-30r-le

    If this is too cost prohibitive, I’d stick with a quality 16in, it’s going to stay in the back of the explorer most of the time anyway, so what’s a few inches of barrel length?
     
  19. tacit mesa

    tacit mesa

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    I carried a braced SIG M400 with a Trijicon MRO in a soft case in the trunk of my detective ride. I was deployed a number of times, but frankly I'm not sure it did much better, other than being slightly smaller, than any of my 16 inch stocked rifles did.
     
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  20. CAcop

    CAcop

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    To be honest the shorter you go from 14.5 you need to start being careful on ammo selection when it comes to 5.56. Less than 10 and you really need to start thinking about 9mm or other calibers.

    I totally see the point of an MPX or Scorpion for a detective. You could put it, a raid jacket, the gun, and extra mags into a light laptop bag. It basically is a large pistol but you are gaining distance to engage someone with it.

    As for a 5.56 pistol. I'm not quite sold on it if you live in an NFA friendly state. I do get the downsides of the muzzle blast but there are smaller, more compact suppressors that don't add a whole lot of length. Or quick attach that don't affect zero so if in a hurry you can blast away as needed, if you have a few seconds then you can attach it. Brownells has a 10 in BRN-180 that fits on an AR lower and allows for a folding stock due to it being a clone of the AR-18.