Glock 20 Anyone using Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defender ammo in their carry Glocks

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by rlewpolar, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. rlewpolar

    rlewpolar

    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Been seeing some really impressive testing results from the Lehigh bullet, especially when Underwood loads it.

    I'm thinking of loading my own using the Lehigh bullet and wondering if anyone runs this bullet (or ammo, either from Lehigh or Underwood) and whether it feeds reliably in any and all Glocks in different calibers. I have Glocks in 9mm, 10mm, 45 GAP, .40, and 45 ACP and thinking about switching all of my carry ammo over to this.

    Thoughts?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. thomgetch

    thomgetch

    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    246
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Any carry gun for urban or woods I have will be underwood defender, or hunter loaded, 9mm or 10mm. Always flawless function and a great balance between barrier blindness, penetration and wound channel. Why have different types of ammo when one type will do it all?

    The pick below shows the defender 10mm going through cardboard target in a recent testing session. The holes shape created compared to standard ball ammo was interesting.

    [​IMG]
     

  3. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

    Messages:
    18,800
    Likes Received:
    29,819
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Location:
    Idaho
    I have loaded both the XD and XP bullets in my 380 loads. They fed in both my 380 Kahrs and G42, fine.

    I carry the XP loaded to normal SAAMI spec pressures in my P380 mouse gun.
     
    strait shooter likes this.
  4. rlewpolar

    rlewpolar

    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Thanks. Interested in hearing your impressions about recoil with the 10mm bullet. Lehigh claims there is reduced recoil due to to the lower mass of their bullet. Can you feel any difference?

    I carry a G29 for urban use and wondering if the 10mm Extreme Defender bullet loaded to mid load would be a good application for this. If it recoils less than the Underwood 10mm Gold Dot JHPs I currently carry and doesn't over penetrate, might be a good way to go.

    Maybe WeeWilly can chime in here too. I know he is well versed in the 10mm


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

    Messages:
    16,631
    Likes Received:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Location:
    Northeastern Washington
    I have my doubts about the bullet technology. Basically they trade mass for velocity and penetration for expansion and then the fluted Phillips-head bullets seems to work some sort of "Magic" in ballistics Gel but I wonder if it has the same effect in Flesh and bone.

    I think this type of ammo might only have limited applications. One would be in the .380 which doesn't develop enough velocity to expand and if it does expand the expansion reduces penetration. So in the 380 it's loaded with 90 grain bullets that will definitely penetrate and if the magic bullet actually works, that's an added bonus.

    The other load I like is in the underwood xtreme penetrator 44 special which is loaded with a 220 grain bullet which is a decent weight for the 44 caliber and it's loaded to 1050 fps/539 fpe so even if the fluted bullet doesn't work it's magic in flesh and bone as well as it does in ballistics gel those are still pretty respectable ballistics.

    Before relying on this ammo as defensive ammo I'd rather wait until there are some actual street shootings involving this ammo such as there are with existing ammo that has proved to be effective in the real world such as the Speer Gold Dot, the Federal HST and others. There is some very effective ammo out there and it just might be that there isn't any need to re-invent the wheel all over again.

    Here's an article about the Fedeal HST ammo in actual street shootings:

    http://lawofficer.com/archive/made-for-cops/
     
  6. rlewpolar

    rlewpolar

    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    HST is what I carry now. I think we may have to wait a long, long time before we see any real data on street shootings by the time departments switch over and use these in real scenarios.

    The testing I've seen online has been pretty impressive. Granted it was in ballistic gel but also through barriers, denim, pork products, etc. Has me pretty much convinced that this is the real deal but yes, I'd like to see some actual street data as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    -JCN- likes this.
  7. newglocker10mm

    newglocker10mm Texas Born & Bred

    Messages:
    3,342
    Likes Received:
    7,076
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2017
    Location:
    Texas, Oklahoma and anywhere with Oil!
    Seems like a good bullet where penetration is desired over other parameters, such as a woods or trail gun. JMO, I think I still prefer JHP for urban use.
     
  8. dj45

    dj45

    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    751
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    All of my carry guns are 9mm at the moment. I carry the Xtreme Defender either in 90gr or 65gr+P in all my carry guns. The testing I've seen indicates that these rounds either match, or completely out perform JHP rounds in accuracy, wound cavity and especially consistency in depth of penetration.

    Most JHP rounds, when they hit something hard, or something that plugs them up, often turn into a round nose bullet. This can lead to drastic over penetration. The Xtreme Defenders tend to penetrate right around that 16 to 18 inch mark, regardless of what they hit or don't hit. Plus I really like their performance against defeating windshields and staying on target.
     
    -JCN- likes this.
  9. thomgetch

    thomgetch

    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    246
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    I shoot 10mm from two pistols, a sig 220-10 and a Glock G40. Neither is the size of your 29. However I do find less recoil over shooting standard 180 grain pills. Buy a box of underwood and try it, then you will know.

    I carry these because you have a solid copper slug to penetrate a bears skull or a car door with at least as much internal damage as any hollow point and max penetration. Gel tests are impressive but also check out the cavity left in a block of clay. I’ve seen too many tests where a hollow point clogs and acts like a round nose with no expansion at all.

    To each his own.
     
  10. Kalmah

    Kalmah Supreme Member

    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Colorado
    The Lehigh bullets look impressive in jello testing, but there's no data on performance in real world self-defensive shootings.

    When police departments start issuing it and it develops some positive "street cred," I'll think about carrying it. Until then, I'll stick with the street proven HST.
     
  11. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

    Messages:
    7,393
    Likes Received:
    5,641
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014

    The real value of the XD XP rounds is their overall balanced performance. Good penetration with a respectable wound cavity, barrier blind no matter the material or how heavy the clothing, far superior tactical penetration, less recoil etc.

    Also if you want to use the XD in a CCW sized gun check out the UA 357 Sig offerings.
     
  12. dj45

    dj45

    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    751
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    I understand it's just one scenario. But terrorists are increasingly using vehicles to commit mass killings, and you don't have to look very hard to find plenty of empirical evidence clearly showing that against windshields, hollow points of any kind, absolutely suck.
     
  13. rlewpolar

    rlewpolar

    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Here's a great video of the Underwood Lehigh Defender compared to other rounds in clay as one of the posters above noted. This is pretty impressive. Granted it's the 10mm but wow.


    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yly7yCIAuxg



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    MikeG36, Cpt.J and dj45 like this.
  14. rlewpolar

    rlewpolar

    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    That's my thinking as well. When they start using vehicles as weapons, time to rethink hollowpoints.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    dj45 likes this.
  15. Triple Taps

    Triple Taps

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    866
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Don't overlook the Underwood 10mm "Extreme Penetrator" round.
    There is a youtube video of this round going thru 3" bulletproof glass with ease (I guess it can't be called bulletproof now).

    I do like Underwood ammo myself, but in 50 round boxes, not 20 round boxes in anything.

    I like the video above on the Lehigh Defender, especially for my G20 10mm.
     
    MikeG36, Cpt.J and dj45 like this.
  16. thewoods868

    thewoods868 thewoods868

    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    1,803
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Location:
    Southern Indiana
    9mm+p+ in 19 90 gr. In bodyguard 65 gr +p
     
    Big1 likes this.
  17. Triple Taps

    Triple Taps

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    866
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Have you seen the new shoulder fired LAWS that fires "Bowling Pins" at 2200fps, with AMF or Brunswick pins?
    Depending upon your aim, you could get a "strike" every time.

    No, not really!
     
    MO Fugga likes this.
  18. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

    Messages:
    7,393
    Likes Received:
    5,641
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014

    Drop a 357 Sig barrel in your .40 or 10mm and this could be the round for you!

    https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...5-grain-xtreme-defender?variant=7865934315577
     
  19. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    45,582
    Likes Received:
    24,176
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Location:
    Hellbilly Hill
    Dude, I want one!
     
  20. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    45,582
    Likes Received:
    24,176
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Location:
    Hellbilly Hill
    I've shot XP in rifle, and am interested in getting these to fill the 10mm spare mags. A 20 rounder in the back pocket is comforting. If It's so bad that I need to reload... yada yada. Why not? Ain't no reason to be scared of a prosecutor around here.