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Anyone have issues with Montana Gold 9mm JHP's seating crooked?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Meathead9, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. Meathead9

    Meathead9

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    I have had issues with XTP's seating crooked with my 9x25 Dillon dies, and it looks like MG's have the same profile as the XTP. I'm considering buying a case of 124gr JHP's to use for 9mm & 9x25 Dillon (both with Dillon dies), but I don't want to have issues seating them straight. I'm guessing that since a go-zillion shooters use MG's, it's probably not a problem, but I want to make sure before I buy 3,750 of them.

    I know I can "customize" my seater stem with epoxy, but I was hoping to skip that if I can. If that ends up being my only option, can someone give me a play-by-play on how to do that correctly? I figure why reinvent the wheel if some of you guys have done this before. I'm not really interested in paying $80 for a Redding Competition Seating Die, but if it saves me $30 per 1000 bullets, it will pay for itself pretty quickly.

    I was considering Zero's, but they cost about $30 more per 1000.
    I'm set on 124gr JHP's, so those 2 seem to be my only real option.
     
  2. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    Two cheap FREE things to try.
    1. Give a more generous flare to sit the bullet on.
    2. When you set your dies, raise the loaded shellplate into the seater die and loosen it. This will allow it to center in the threads of the toolhead bore then tighten it down. (I do it with all stations).
     

  3. Meathead9

    Meathead9

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    Thanks man. The only way I was able to correct it with my 9x25 Dillon XTP loads, was to give the cases a REDICULOUS amount of flare. I was hoping to find a 124gr JHP with a different profile, so I don't have to work the brass so hard, but the price of MG's is hard to beat.

    I'll have to try resetting the dies too, thanks again.
     
  4. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    No worries... also the newer dillon seating dies have two sides for different profiles, if I recall. Don't remember as I use the Redding Comp. Anyways check your and see if the flipside will work better.
     
  5. Meathead9

    Meathead9

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    Yep, tried that too. I initially had this problem with the JHP/FN side of the stem, so I flipped it over. The RN side crunched the tip of the XTP's inward, to where the HP cavity almost closed completely.
     
  6. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    Hmmm, you may end up having to just filling the one side flat with epoxy. Give the other things a try first.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  7. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    Increasing the amount of flare/bell on a case can actually exacerbate the problem of bullet runout... it allows the projectile to tip to one side even further.

    The easiest and most effect fix is to use either a 'M' style flaring die or a powder funnel with a two step flare design, (incorporates an 'M' design) which allows the projectile to not only sit straight and upright in the case but alleviates the problem of the projectile tipping while a progressive press indexes.

    Although 'M' dies have been very popular with lead loaders for many years they work equally well with jacketed and plated bullets.

    A very important benefit is that they allow you to seat a projectile on a case while watching the flat panel without worry that it will be seated crooked. (An example of a specialty die actually worth the cost. Lyman dies run eleven bucks and are available in many different diameters. :supergrin:)


    Jack
     
  8. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    So would these M style flaring dies work with a Dillon set-up? I ask being that the Dillon power drop not only flares but neck sizes right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Yep, And I didn't see a big difference between the M-die and the Dillon in 9mm. I would try flaring to .015-.020". See if that helps. Beyond that is a waste. But some people would consider that "alot of flare". It's really not. If that doesn't work then try a different seating die. My lee seats these bullets perfectly. I know it's not as fancy as a Dillon. But the Lee seems to have a different shape in the cone (sharper/steeper). It seems to work well.
     
  10. Meathead9

    Meathead9

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    I did try both sides of my RCBS 9mm seating die, and would have tried the LEE die that I used to have, but the LEE die's internal diameter isn't big enough to accept the 10mm portion of the 9x25 case. I didn't measure the amount of flare that seemed to help, but it was definitely more than .002. I have read that LEE will make custom seating stems, does anyone know if Dillon provides that service? I guess I should probably call them myself.

    I also forgot to add that I had this issue while loading the 9x25 on a RockChucker. I'll be loading the 9mm on my 650, but the 9x25 will stay with the RockChucker.
     
  11. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    I only use the 'M' dies on my LNL's since there's really no place to put them on the 1050's or 550... don't know about the 650.

    I find that they work much better than the Dillon or Hornady funnels, especially when loading lead. A very nice feature is that you can buy different diameter stems, (for use with lead or jacketed, etc) and interchange them in one die body.

    Not all that necessary when using a SS but with the movement of a progressive shell plate the projectile is held tight and perfectly straight.

    Increasing flare/bell past a certain point simply allows a projectile to tilt/offset even more and does nothing to correct runout.

    Is an 'M' style die absolutely necessary... no, of course not, just makes life a little easier.


    Jack
     
  12. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    I said .015-.020. :wavey:

    I wonder if you could turn the Lee down in a lath a little to get it to work with your caliber. ESPECIALLY, if you know it seats those bullets properly (not sure if it does). But if it did it would be worth the trouble.
     
  13. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    I am going to guess that the M-Die would not work that great on the 650 unless you moved the powder measure to the 3rd station (you would need to alter the powder measure to make that work). Also, the M-Die is probably not going to take the 10mm case, just like the Lee is too small for the 10mm case in the 9mm die.
     
  14. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

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    Sure sound like your dies aren't squared up.
     
  15. Meathead9

    Meathead9

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    Sorry, that was a typo. I'll measure some when I get home tomorrow, but I'm guessing it's much more than .020.

    I don't know if squaring the die was my issue, because if I remember correctly, about half were straight & half crooked (varying in severity). It's definitely a good possibility, but I'm leaning more towards the steep angled flat ogive of the 9mm XTP/MG profile. The sides don't make contact with the seating plug, and the tip of the bullet is very narrow. I don't think the die makes enough contact with this particular bullet to consistently seat them straight.

    It may not be as noticeable in the 9mm case, but it's pretty obvious with the 9x25 Dillon.

    Thanks for all the input fellers, I appreciate the help.
     
  16. Hoser

    Hoser Ninja

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    Break out the epoxy and back off the flare.
     
  17. Meathead9

    Meathead9

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    Care to elaborate?
     
  18. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    I think that's the way to go. You need to have the seater stem fit the bullet properly. I had a large amount of 40SW TC bullets that were real pointy and would tip so bad the rounds wouldn't chamber using a Lee die. I got Lee to make a custom seater and it fixed it right up. I don't use those bullets anymore, bit the custom seater works with other bullets that I do use.

    I have used seaters that were completely mismatched to the bullet and they worked fine, and had the single above example where the custom seater was the onyl thing that would work. I tried every thing and the custom seater was the only solution.

    Since Dillon's customer service is so good, I would call them, or use epoxy, or have a local shop change the profile of your seater.
     
  19. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    I'm not really familiar with the 650 too head so I don't know if it would work or not. As you know on the LNL you can put the powder measure anywhere you want so it's easy for me to have the 'M' die just before the measure, a powder cop after it then a seating/crimping die after that. Except for the way the Dillons are set up I don't use separate seat and crimp dies... simply no reason unless you have an open station that you're no using.

    I have absolutely no idea about the 10mm, never even shot one must less loaded 'em... came out way after my time.


    Jack
     
  20. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    .....