Another IO AK issue

Discussion in 'The Kalashnikov Klub' started by twag4, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. twag4

    twag4

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    So I do not pirate dfin's post about his jamming problem, here is mine. I fired mine again today and after about 60 rounds for the day (between 450 and 500 total rounds fired now through this my second AK from IOInc) I started having jams. First rifle had barrel mounted canted to the left. This one has been great until now. Firing Yugo ammo,the bolt hung open nearly fully to the rear, and it appears it is just lifting out of the rails when coming back forward. It is pretty difficult to unjam. Because of the problem with the first rifle I have been without my AK as much as I have been with it since paying for it, and do not look forward to doing that again. This new rifle came and they forgot to mount the scope rail on the left side of the receiver. They sent me the parts to mount it plus the quick releas rail for the scope to mount on for my trouble, but where is the QC? On a good note,I shot pretty tight groups with it today on the 100m range. But AKs dont flipping jam right? Four jams in two 30 round mags. I will take it out this week one more time to verify, but i am done if it happens again. I hope IOInc will just refund me for my time and trouble. I was originally gonna buy an uncompensated Norinco, but the wife let me buy this and another pistol instead of the more expensive chicom. Shouldn't have been greedy I guess.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  2. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    Real commies-made AKs don't jam. American-assembled AKs...that's another story.
     

  3. twag4

    twag4

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    Yes, fnfalman, you are correct. I had a milled Norinco some years back that I sold for a huge profit, and I have regretted it ever since. I should have kept it. I guess I hoped that made in USA would mean something. I gave up on US auto makers years ago, now I suppose that this is along those same lines. I believe healthy competition in the market place will take care of bad builders, but I am sure there will be no govt sponsored bailouts of weapons manufacturers when they do not make a quality product on their own.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  4. DFin

    DFin

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    I'm sorry to hear about your problems but it sounds like you may have the same problem as me. They have had mine since thur morning but have ignored my e-mails like they usually do. I am tired of hearing their BS about what a great product they make. When I tried the recoil buffer, like GIockGuy24 suggested, I was able to fire 90 rounds without a jam but I don't want to have to rely on the recoil buffer for it to work dependably and I sent it back to IO.
    I bought an AK because they do not jam!! I thought that buying an American made AK was even better. I have been regretting not spending the extra money for an Arsenal or even less for a WASR. It seems that even the lowly Century makes a better AK than IO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  5. my762buzz

    my762buzz

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    I have not kept up with the other thread on the issue having something to do with the trigger profile causing a problem. A properly made AK clone should not have the problems you been having. Unfortunately, when you buy a cheap knockoff assembled by amateurs, you are less likely to end with a flawless gun. Saving a buck is sometimes not worth the headache.
    Try and get your money refunded.
     
  6. my762buzz

    my762buzz

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    An Arsenal-Legion Saiga SGL 21 is about as low as you can go for a new production gun that is more likely to work right out of the box and I do emphasize new as opposed to mystery parts on domestic builds or Romanian recycled parts. A regular saiga sporter has a better price but will require some work to make it customized.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  7. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    I have been saying it for years........... I dont like kit guns.
     
  8. Mail Clerk

    Mail Clerk

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    twag4,

    Have you thought of getting a dummy round and slowly cycle the action to be sure exactly what is jamming??? Bear in mind I'm not an AK expert as I just bought one of these and will get a chance to fire/function test mine when our company closes for a week at the end of the year.

    Personally I wonder if the recoil spring is going limp after you shoot those 60 or so rounds. If I read your papagraph correctly the jamming started after 60 rounds shot. I also wonder if the jamming occurs when the rifle is clean or fairly dirty. I figure it is pretty much a straing in feeding system so why should it jam.

    Anyway you have allot of things to consider including the bolt locking backwards during your firing cycle which is what allot of people have noted. If a buffer cures that problem then I would use it. Why bang up the rear trunnion during the firing cycle??

    Mail Clerk
     
  9. twag4

    twag4

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    Cannot duplicate by hand. Only happens when firing. Bolt carrier was lifted out on right side but not on left side. Spring forced it forward about .5 cm and it was tough to unwedge. The hammer does not hold the bolt open. I am not spending money on a recoil buffer as I believe the gun should function properly without it-regardless of battering receiver. The gun is not a kit gun. New Mossberg barrel, I.O. Inc stamps and or machines all other metal parts according to several gun magazines and their own web site. The wood furniture is not new however. To get wood you have to special order the gun, and they refinish what appears to be Romy furniture. The gun is accurate, it functioned perfectly until the problems with the carrier lifting at the rear of its travel. The gun looks great too. I was excited more about an American gun than a cheap gun. Like I previously stated, I coulda had a Norinco. Wanted to give this a try and get a new pistol too. What if the zombies come?:shocked: I am not interested in sending this thing back every time i shoot it. It cost me nearly thirty dollars last time to ship it.That puts the gun at over $440. Now I gotta do it again? Now we are in Yugo underfolder price territory. I am gonna shoot it Tuesday, if it malfunctions I will send it back. This time they can keep it. I.O. Inc is in trouble in my opinion if they do not get some QC issues resolved. GM they are not, and no one will rescue them. :drowning: Thank You to all who replied, if I was looking to make this thing work in spite of questionable craftsmanship then good advice. I want I.O to make it right the first two times. Third time is a charm for me. I don't need any more information after DFin's experience. He is a much more patient man than I.
     
  10. DFin

    DFin

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    I could not duplicate my jamming problem by hand either. It cycled very smoothly by hand even when I hand cycled it very rapidly. After I got it to fire reliably with the buffer, w/o jamming for 90 rounds, I removed the buffer and fired it until it did jam (it took about 15 rounds.) Then I sent it back to IO with the bolt jammed open so they could see it. I would prefer my money back but I doubt IO will do that. The owner said he would fix it or exchange it as he takes personal pride it the great product they make.

    So far they have had my rifle since thur and, as usual, they have not responded to my e-mails. I lost faith in IO several months ago. AK's are supposed to work reliably with use, abuse and neglect. Mine got babied and jammed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010
  11. twag4

    twag4

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    Did you get to pay shipping again DFin? I am not willing to drop another $30.00 into this disappointment of a rifle. They are gonna have to do something different than me sending it to them once a month at my expense.
     
  12. DFin

    DFin

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    I had to pay shipping this time ($14.50 via Fedex) but IO sent me prepaid shipping labels the first 2 times I returned it. The owner refused this time and said he has been spending too much money on return shipping. He did say that he would reimburse me if he found the AK to be defective but also said he would charge me for labor and return shipping fees if he finds nothing wrong with it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  13. Mail Clerk

    Mail Clerk

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    Hi guys,

    Can you describe the jam???? I wonder if it has anything to do with the magazines. Perhaps it's all a timing issue.

    Mail Clerk
     
  14. twag4

    twag4

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    My jam is happening at the full rearward travel of the bolt and bolt carrier, the right side of the carrier is lifting out of the receiver at the opening in the rails where the carrier comes out for disassembly. Sometimes it travels forward and sometimes not. When it does travel forward it is really tough to get the bolt to move.

    By the way, it jammed again today and they are sending me a shipping label for free shipping back to them as this is my second problem rifle. The jam happened after the rifle got good and warm. I took cell phone pictures of the problem just in case. The guy I talked to convinced me to give them a third try and they would get me a reliable rifle. I told him "OK", but next time I am going to demand a refund. I better not get treatment like DFin got with the whole service charge and shipping charge "if we don't find anything wrong." I will simply say "Hey #$$box, if there was no problem I would not call you. Make a quality product and develope a quality control protocall and you won't have to pay so many return shipping fees." I believe the fact that they have had to pay so many return fees is evidence enough that they have problems. The guy I talked to acted puzzeled when I asked him if they had any similar complaints to mine. Once in a while there are problems when we make and sell so many rifles was the kind of response I got. I did not let on that I know better. They sweet talked themselves into one more chance. I must say that my experience with their customer service has been good though. They have listened and said and done all of the right things about this. I told him I was sick of them having my rifle more than me since I bought it in August. I will keep you posted.
     
  15. DFin

    DFin

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    Mine jammed in a manner similar to twag4's. The jam occurred before the bolt would even reach the mag.
    They ignored my e-mails again today so I told them what great customer service they have and to refund my money. I really have no faith in them and I don't think they know what they are doing. They have managed to take a proven weapons system, the AK, that is the hallmark of reliability and screw it up!! If they send me another AK I really don't even want to waste more ammo trying to see if it shoots reliably & accurately.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  16. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    Lots of bad press out there from AK home builders stating IO's receivers
    are very often "out of specifications" bends and heat treating seems to be the most common complaint
     
  17. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    If an AK variant rifle is jamming, something is either broke or not machined/built correctly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  18. DFin

    DFin

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    I wish I had known about the problems with the IO receivers before I bought mine. I hope that by posting my problems here I have prevented potential IO buyers from encountering the same problems as me. The good thing about this is that I learned a lot about AK's & problems with them from very helpful and knowledgeable people.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  19. my762buzz

    my762buzz

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    We all live and learn. The thing is you could warn people all day long about
    avoiding the lower quality products and unless you can actually show them in person why exactly one product is far better then the other they just go by how cool it looks and price. I think many people have given up trying to warn newer buyers of the potential issues.
     
  20. Mail Clerk

    Mail Clerk

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    Hi Guys,

    From what I hear/read from your postings it appears they're at least listening and willing to work on your rifles and consider refunds if needed. I mean they're talking so keep up the conversation. By doing this they are aware of the many complaints.

    If your bolt acrriers are coming out of the slots in the receivers then it's obvious it's allowed to recoil back way too far so that's why using a buffer appears to solve the issue. However if one doesn't use a buffer then you have to expect some form of trunnion wear/battering so what's worse outta the two???? Either case it's not supose to happen so I wonder if the trunnion is not thick enough to keep the bolt from bending it out of shape??

    Allot of questions that still needs to be ansewered. My guess is that they/IO Casar Inc. know more than you think.

    Mail Clerk