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Another "Green"Energy source about to be debunked?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by robertoh, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. robertoh

    robertoh

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    This drought has caused,and will cause a lot of problems for us in the near future.Food prices,and many other things will become more expensive.Another Industry that is already being effected is Ethanol.Ethanol is prctical when Oil is about 95 to 100+ dollars a barrel,---in normal times.Oil is running in the middle eighties right now and wouldn't be a problem for Ethanol producers if it weren't for the fact due to the corn price running over $7.00 a bushel because of drought conditions.I talked to a friend today who has a summer home in Michigan and he said the Ethanol plants up there a re shutting down because they can't turn a profit.It appears that one of Obama's cornestone green energy sourses it about to be tested and shown it can't always be counted as a realiable energy.I'm wondering if the MSM will even mention this in an Election year?
     
  2. ray9898

    ray9898

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    While it is easy to put ethanol off on Obama, Bush started the ball rolling in 2006 with the Renewable Fuel Standard Program and followed with the Energy Independence and Security Act in 2007 which is actually what mandated 15B gallons of ethanol be used by 2015.
     

  3. robertoh

    robertoh

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    I was wrong,corn is now 8.25 a bushel.One thing about Government Programs,they always have a habit of never making their goals,except for Tax programs.
     
  4. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    Ethanol is the devil's fuel.
     
  5. Diesel_Bomber

    Diesel_Bomber

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    Sounds like the free market is doing what it should be doing. Ethanol is a fantastic option to have, to be used when it can be competitive with other fuels. When it can't, use the fuel that is.

    There is no silver bullet fuel that will be the best option 100% of the time. Gasoline and diesel sure as hell aren't.

    Most EFI spark ignition vehicles can be fairly easily converted to run on 100% gasoline, 100% ethanol, or any mixture in between. If done from the factory, this requires relatively little extra cost and zero extra effort or time. A bit more trouble and propane or CNG is possible, in addition to liquid fuels. Just switch around to whatever fuel you need depending on what is least expensive or what is available.
     
  6. ColdSteelNail

    ColdSteelNail

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    Don't worry. Since global warming is not real the drought will subside and we'll return to normal weather patterns very soon. Ethanol will be viable once again.
     
  7. Reissman

    Reissman Millennium Member

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    I don't know where your friend is in Michigan but the corn by us is HUGE.
     
  8. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

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    Same here:dunno:
    Wettest summer/spring I've had here and the last 3 weeks of upper 80's to 100's temp have made our corn get tall FAST:faint:
     
  9. CJStudent

    CJStudent No Longer Fenced In

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    Must be nice! Around here, it's all stunted and drying up.
     
  10. LASTRESORT20

    LASTRESORT20 L T G

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    Interesting thread....
     
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Good. Now lets kill the ethanol subsidies and get to the best alternative: natural gas

    Give me a dual fuel vehicle with a filling station in my garage
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  12. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    Ethanol is a proven net-energy loser, and nothing more than a politically driven agenda to buy votes. :upeyes:

    Ethanol as an alternative fuel for internal combustion engines is frankly, stupid... :freak:

    --Ray
     
  13. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    Ethanol may be stupid as an alternative fuel, but as a backdoor vehicle for farm subsidies, it's a perfect Trojan Horse - thus all of the support from many Republicans.

    And I say that as a Republican.
     
  14. garyjandfamily

    garyjandfamily

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    DING DING - We have a winner.

    National Geographic did a big issue on energy sources a couple of years ago. Very educational. Turns out that ethanol is a big energy loser, and is actually comparable in environmental damage with oil.

    But both parties have used it for years as a great way to buy mid-west votes.

    (excuse me while I climb up on my soap-box)

    The problem is - we have the government that we deserve. Think about it. What is the approval rating of congress right now? Below 25%? Why don't we fire 75% of incumbents every time they come up for election? Because, while your congressman is a slimy double-dealing idiot, I'm going to re-elect mine. Why? Because he brings me home pork. Because he's been in office so long that he sits on all of the important committees and gives my state an influence that is disproportionate with its population. (I'm from Utah, I know all about this). And politicians have learned the lesson, they have become masters of buying our votes. Why do you think that the party in power at the present time is working so hard to expand food stamps? To enslave a voting population, one that will have to vote their way or starve!!

    The Framers of the Constitution took great pains to put us in charge of the government. If we don't like it, our job is to vote them out.

    And (speaking generally) we have prostituted our vote.
     
  15. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Jive Tiger

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    I have no issue with biofuels as a concept but I have to wonder if corn is the best material. It is in so many other things (feeding livestock, food, food additives) that I fear we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. That said if it gets farmers that are being paid not to farm their land back to work (ie we have the capacity to absorb the excess demand) then I'm okay with it.

    If any biomass will work what about kudzu? That stuff grows 7 inches a day on solid rock. Or a serial hybrid vehicle fueled by biodiesel?

    Natural Gas is another option but eventually we will wind up with the same problem assuming it is a limited resource.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
  16. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    I thought I said that... :tongueout:

    "Ethanol is a proven net-energy loser, and nothing more than a politically driven agenda to buy votes." :upeyes:

    Both parties have pushed ethanol on us under the guise of a green fuel solution...

    The Republicans:

    http://farmprogress.com/story-ethanol-winner-iowa-caucus-0-56251

    The Democrats:

    http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/...port-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/

    It is nothing but Farm Welfare, and it is directly connected to increasing food costs.

    But we've known for years that ethanol is a BS solution. Hell, even Al Gore admitted as much:

    http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE6AL0YT20101122?sp=true

    It is what it is... :dunno:

    --Ray
     
  17. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Jive Tiger

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    My 2000 Silverado can supposedly be converted to run on natural gas with a different intake manifold and fuel cell. I haven't tried it though.
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Any engine can.


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  19. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Jive Tiger

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    Yeah but they made a point of it in the brochure for mine. I knew a guy about 20 years ago that had a work truck (basically a cube van with a van-like cab) converted to run on natural gas. The tank was on top of the cab.
     
  20. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    I do. Because it takes more energy to bring ethanol to market than ethanol offers back in saved energy... Like I said, it's a net-loser.

    It's like working a job that pays $500.00 a day, but costs you $600.00 a day in expenses to do. You're losing $100.00 a day working the job...

    Of course, ethanol created an artificial commodity with a government-mandated artificial demand, and marketplace, and those poised to suckle off that particular government teat are only too happy to play along... Like I said, “welfare”.

    This is anecdotal, But I was surprised that Jimmy Smits' character, the Democratic presidential nominee in The West Wing (which I reviewed recently) nailed ethanol for what it is! He called it a "make work program" to buy votes, and a "net energy loser"... I also recall the character, C.J. Cregg, stating that $5.00 a gallon gas would be "the best thing to happen to the American people", and that was 2006... Glorified Liberals not withstanding, I liked that show, as it showcased some contemporary issues and philosophies very accurately.

    --Ray

    P.S. Ethanol-laced gas is very bad for older engines and many small equipment engines.