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There was great concern back in the early 1980s that one could catch the HIV virus from public toilet seats. The fact is that upon emergence of a new virus, a lot is unknown and only becomes clear over time.

The finding of viral RNA or even viable virus on surfaces or suspended in air for anywhere from hours to days does not necessarily mean that surfaces or air will likely transmit sufficient viral load to result in infection. Unless enough people are willing to become human guinea pigs, like the notorious toilet seat licker who got covid-19, the answers only come with time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
........like the notorious toilet seat licker who got covid-19, the answers only come with time.
Even though I don’t think we should have shutdown everything and destroyed the economy, the virus is real. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
 

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Even though I don’t think we should have shutdown everything and destroyed the economy, the virus is real. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The virus is real, but not nearly the black death they sold everyone on. The response has been a complete joke and totally politicized. Besides NYC and New Orleans, we should not have shut down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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How is this a flip flop? It can still spread via surfaces. Were they saying before that if you even looked at a surface you would get it? No.
Isn't it amazing how people hem and haw when learned people adjust their viewpoints when presented with new evidence....

That's the kind of thinking that caused the pope to imprison gallelleo...

If you want views that never change despite new evidence than the bleeding edge of scientific discovery isn't for you. stick to televangelists and talk show hosts...
 

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Isn't it amazing how people hem and haw when learned people adjust their viewpoints when presented with new evidence....

That's the kind of thinking that caused the pope to imprison gallelleo...

If you want views that never change despite new evidence than the bleeding edge of scientific discovery isn't for you. stick to televangelists and talk show hosts...
Exactly - the whole point of science is to get better and better answers over time. Eventually you end up with either the final correct answer, or the best one that can be obtained with the resources and knowledge at hand.

Headlines and science don't go well together - it's one of the places where the need to both condense something complex into a few words and to make it interesting enough to click on tends to go the farthest astray. It's incredibly distressing to read the actual study underlying an article... it's usually not at ALL what the headline suggests.

'CDC has initial indications Covid transmission via surfaces may be somewhat lower than originally suspected in a small number of tested conditions' isn't going to draw a lot of clicks.
 

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Isn't it amazing how people hem and haw when learned people adjust their viewpoints when presented with new evidence....

That's the kind of thinking that caused the pope to imprison gallelleo...

If you want views that never change despite new evidence than the bleeding edge of scientific discovery isn't for you. stick to televangelists and talk show hosts...
Well put. I’m sick of my dumb friends who say, haha, see, scientists don’t know anything. Look, they just changed their minds again! Haha!!! Scientists are dumb!!!




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Isn't it amazing how people hem and haw when learned people adjust their viewpoints when presented with new evidence....

That's the kind of thinking that caused the pope to imprison gallelleo...

If you want views that never change despite new evidence than the bleeding edge of scientific discovery isn't for you. stick to televangelists and talk show hosts...
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13618460-600-vatican-admits-galileo-was-right/

"In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun. Under threat of torture, Galileo – seen facing his inquisitors – recanted. But as he left the courtroom, he is said to have muttered, ‘all the same, it moves’.

Last week, 359 years later, the Church finally agreed. At a ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right. The formal rehabilitation was based on the findings of a committee of the Academy the Pope set up in 1979, soon after taking office. The committee decided the Inquisition had acted in good faith, but was wrong."

"good" & "faith", are two words that never belong together.
 
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I’m sick of my dumb friends who say, haha, see, scientists don’t know anything.
Your friends are smarter than you think. So-called "scientists" are not objective determiners of Truth who descend from the heavens in white lab coats to chart the course for humanity. They are average people like you and me, with their own biases and paradigms and failings. And their own ability to deceive, obfuscate and lie.

Consider that "science" told us in the 1970's that global cooling was going to cause a new ice age and global famine. We are still waiting for that one. "Science" gave us global warming and climate change, both of which have fallen on the dung pile of history. "Science" says that the living human child in the womb, with a beating heart and a brain and 10 fingers and a distinct genetic code derived from her father and mother, is not actually a living human baby but rather something to be discarded in a medical waste container. "Science" says that the universe created itself from absolute nothingness, that life came from non-life, and that the life that came from non-life created metaphysical realities like love and yearning. Your laptop did not create and assemble itself out of pure nothingness, but "science" says that the entire universe and everything in it did just that.

So what some call "science" is often not true science at all, but something dark that masquerades as Truth.

Our job is not to accept or reject any "science" in toto, but to develop the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff, and to discern heat from light. Merely saying that "science" is always right or always wrong wholly misses the point.
 

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Your friends are smarter than you think. So-called "scientists" are not objective determiners of Truth who descend from the heavens in white lab coats to chart the course for humanity. They are average people like you and me, with their own biases and paradigms and failings. And their own ability to deceive, obfuscate and lie.

Consider that "science" told us in the 1970's that global cooling was going to cause a new ice age and global famine. We are still waiting for that one. "Science" gave us global warming and climate change, both of which have fallen on the dung pile of history. "Science" says that the living human child in the womb, with a beating heart and a brain and 10 fingers and a distinct genetic code derived from her father and mother, is not actually a living human baby but rather something to be discarded in a medical waste container. "Science" says that the universe created itself from absolute nothingness, that life came from non-life, and that the life that came from non-life created metaphysical realities like love and yearning. Your laptop did not create and assemble itself out of pure nothingness, but "science" says that the entire universe and everything in it did just that.

So what some call "science" is often not true science at all, but something dark that masquerades as Truth.

Our job is not to accept or reject any "science" in toto, but to develop the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff, and to discern heat from light. Merely saying that "science" is always right or always wrong wholly misses the point.
https://gizmodo.com/sting-operation-reveals-sciences-insane-fake-news-probl-1793523135

Sting Operation Reveals Science's Insane Fake News Problem
 

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Displaced Hillbilly
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Your friends are smarter than you think. So-called "scientists" are not objective determiners of Truth who descend from the heavens in white lab coats to chart the course for humanity. They are average people like you and me, with their own biases and paradigms and failings. And their own ability to deceive, obfuscate and lie.

Consider that "science" told us in the 1970's that global cooling was going to cause a new ice age and global famine. We are still waiting for that one. "Science" gave us global warming and climate change, both of which have fallen on the dung pile of history. "Science" says that the living human child in the womb, with a beating heart and a brain and 10 fingers and a distinct genetic code derived from her father and mother, is not actually a living human baby but rather something to be discarded in a medical waste container. "Science" says that the universe created itself from absolute nothingness, that life came from non-life, and that the life that came from non-life created metaphysical realities like love and yearning. Your laptop did not create and assemble itself out of pure nothingness, but "science" says that the entire universe and everything in it did just that.

So what some call "science" is often not true science at all, but something dark that masquerades as Truth.

Our job is not to accept or reject any "science" in toto, but to develop the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff, and to discern heat from light. Merely saying that "science" is always right or always wrong wholly misses the point.

Very well said.
 

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Scientists learn through trial and error.
Thick, stubborn people, not so much.
True. However, when those errors put more than 33 million people out of work in the US alone, it is a huge deal not an oopsie. Scientists made hyperbolic claims and they had huge long lasting damage. Much ridicule is made of people that don’t buy into the hysteria. Those ridiculing others seemed to want downplay the huge damage done from listening to and acting on the errors of “scientists”. They say it is no big deal “scientists” have given us conflicting information and recommendations. It is a HUGE deal.

This pandemic will unlikely have a large impact on the number of deaths over the next 10 years versus the last 10 years (adjusted for population). However if you look at the economy, you will see a big impact over the same period.
 

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True. However, when those errors put more than 33 million people out of work in the US alone, it is a huge deal not an oopsie. Scientists made hyperbolic claims and they had huge long lasting damage. Much ridicule is made of people that don’t buy into the hysteria. Those ridiculing others seemed to want downplay the huge damage done from listening to and acting on the errors of “scientists”. They say it is no big deal “scientists” have given us conflicting information and recommendations. It is a HUGE deal.

This pandemic will unlikely have a large impact on the number of deaths over the next 10 years versus the last 10 years (adjusted for population). However if you look at the economy, you will see a big impact over the same period.
Scientists aren’t spreading this disease by the millions. We are. Some are unwilling to do anything at all to help prevent the spread. If people would do what they could to prevent spreading it, Trump would have been right. It would have gone from 15 to none. Several trillion in debt and hundreds of businesses lost so a bunch of *******s can say, if you don’t want to get sick stay home because I’m not doing **** to help stop the spread.
 
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