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Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Detectorist, Jul 24, 2018.
"Caldwell’s decision to handle Benson’s case through a general court-martial shows the Navy views his case more severely than that of Cmdr. Alfredo Sanchez, who was in command of the USS McCain when it collided with another ship in August in the same area, killing 10 sailors.
Last month Caldwell sent Sanchez to a special court-martial — similar to a misdemeanor trial, with lesser potential punishment — and Sanchez agreed to plead guilty to negligent dereliction of duty resulting in death. He was given a letter of reprimand, a $6,000 loss of pay and agreed to retire from the Navy.
Like Benson, Sanchez was initially charged with negligent homicide.
It's very important for the military to hold its officers accountable. It's even more important for the officers to do their jobs. There was no excuse for that collision.
The Navy has even botched the handling of the investigation. Too many public circle jerk statements of judgment and condemnation that the Defense can use to claim an unfair trial process.
US Navy investigations after the collisions found that 83% of junior U.S. Navy officers lacked proficient seamanship skills.
'Red - Right - Return' might as well be in a foreign language.
The USN has significant leadership problems.
Lt. in the Navy is not like a butter bar in the other services. It is the equivalent of Captain in Army, AF and Marines. She needs at least three to four years in to make grade.
Very few facts are public, soI can't really chime in, but typically the buck stops with the boat's Captain.
However, if either ship were underway operationally, for instance say they were trying to "hide" behind a merchant/civilian shipping, for whatever reason, this might explain the collisions. Personally, I find it hard to believe that these collisions occurred simply due to high traffic in a shipping lane. If so, more than a few heads on the boats should roll.
I think O3 is still considered a junior officer in the Navy.
Junior, Senior, Flag... doesn’t matter. Warfare qualified is all that matters. That means you make the decisions and when you can’t you call the old man. They didn’t do either in this case.
Well not being in the Navy I don't know what their SOPs are while sailing in high traffic areas. I guess I just don't understand how a high tech Navy ship can get in a collision with an large freighter.
7 sailors died as a result so everyone has to pay. You see this every so often on the firing ranges on Army and Marine training areas.
While at Ft. Carson one of the training 105's had a trajectory mistake and a round landed in the back yard of a house in a suburban area. Do you think SHTF on that screw up? Thank God no one was injured.
Cease fire, cease fire! -LOL- I could only imagine.
A very great friend of mine, may he RIP, was in Vietnam (65-67) with some artillery battalions. He did two tours, second one was voluntary, and while waiting (at bus stain) on the way back the second time, he was asked by a woman, with a younger son (9 to 12), if he had ever made a mistake and killed US or friendly forces. He clarified the difference between fire missions that were 'danger close,' and fire missions that were just 'grid numbers.'
After making sure the woman knew the difference, he answered her concerning grid number missions, he said "Yeah, I did get some of ours, but I got a whole lot more of theirs."
We have butter bars too (I had to work with a few) we call them Ensigns.
The buck does stop with the Skipper, but it also picks up the Officer of the Deck on its way. Sometimes the Skipper is the OOD, but not in this case. Navy surface vessels are ships, not boats. Boats are submarines.
Junior officers in the Navy are 01-04, Ensign, Lt Junior Grade, Lt, and Lt Commander.
A Carrier is a ship, everything else is just a boat.
Yep, I get all that. What I don't understand is the " Commodore " thing. And no I don't mean the 64.
I have seen claims that there are currently so many requirements, training, inspection, etc., that nobody can do them all without pencil whipping some of them. Something was going to slide. Some of the things added in recent years were pretty much social justice BS that have nothing to do with running a ship in combat. I don't know if this is true but based on trends I saw years ago I can believe it.
For a while Commodore was the equivalent of a one star Admiral with Rear Admiral being the next step up. That's no longer the case. Commodore is now an honorary title given to senior Captains who command multiple independent naval units. For the Brits I think it's still an official rank.
From a submariners perspective there are two types of 'ships' submarines and targets.
I’m not Navy, but I bet I could go back fifteen years and see the curve from computer controlled navigation, lack of trained personnel, requirements to use the software for ____% of operative time, fewer people in command station.
An almost inevitable slide to incompetence