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Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by New_comer, Dec 16, 2005.
See here: http://www.hkpro.com/p3000.htm
Oh no. Me tempted to buy again.;f Any ideas who will market it in the Philippines or if there is already one, how much will it be?
Oh, boy! That's the big question...
When Tri mark marketed them here circa 2001-2002, the HK USP was even cheaper than Glocks. Then came that issue of iilegal shipment, out they went, in came Nashe, who priced these excellent firearms simply out of reach of us 15-30's. The basic USP went from 29K to 54K in a years time.
In the last gunshow, only one showed up with an HK40, tagged at 82K! ;P
This being the newest model, and given the rarity of HK's here, I won't be surprised if the P2000/3000 costed quite a princely sum. ;g
anong HK model available ngayon sa atin? how much?
Yup...82t last gunshow, almost made my eyeball popped. It should be priced at around 45t -50t for good value's sake...and for ours also. ;f
pweh, mukhang taurus! hehehe.
Who's willing to bet a cheap 1911 w/ a good trigger will outshoot it
Let's say sa Fed Air Marshal drills
out of the box dapat ang labanan. Unfair yan. 1911 pa naman hirap kalaban.(biased tayo eh)
It should be compared to other plastic guns. except for plastic 1911's ;f
too bad napakamahal ng ptc. Id buy that pistol in a heartbeat coming from my experience with the hk usp line.
It looks way much better than the P2000. But I still prefer the plain jane full size USP without the trimmings.
Now if only HK can make their guns as corrosion proof as the Glock...;f
'ika nga ni Doc Holiday "I'm your Huckleberry..."
Unahin muna natin blocked barrel test, para sigurado...
Tapos yelohan natin to -43C, tapos putok agad 20,000 continous rounds of various ammo...
Tapos babad putik, tapos buhangin, sabay putok 1000 rounds ulit.
Kanino kaya pupusta karamihan?
hehe you do realize where the 1911 has proven itself?
Rice paddies to deserts and arctic battlefields pati battlefields na rin competition. It's always the overwhelming choice
Is HK's HE finish not as good as Glock's Tennifer finish?
slide stop mahina ang corrosion resistance.
as for the socom tests. bagsak ang 1911 SOCOM Pistol ng colt. too much torture. iirc do correct me or just make a search under socom test
Sgt Murtough: "Not bad for an old man..." (Headshot from a 41mag a couple of paces away)
Sgt Riggs : "Move over, old man!" (produces a Smiley Face from way downrange... with a berreta 92fs nga lang) ;f
(from Lethal Weapon 1)
With a 'cheap 1911 with a good trigger', I doubt if it will even reach stage two of the torture test
For further reference, here's what I got from the SiGForums :
Regarding sand and 1911's, you all might want to read what Larry Vickers wrote:
Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening. I am fortunate to work in a place where tests like this can be done and nobody will fly off the handle because 4 guns could potentially get trashed - the info gleaned could save lives.
Pistols tested were:
HK USP45 Tactical
rack grade GI 1911
Glock Model 21
Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP. A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow;
1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed.
2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster.
3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well.
4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better.
5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better.
6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well.
Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years.
The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement.
The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read.
The USP has plenty of clearances for sand to go - If you ever get the chance field strip one and check it out.
Now that I think of it I think that hole in the back/bottom of the Glock grip was a real factor here. One of those 'Buttplugs' would probably help - maybe if Glock was smart they would start shipping each gun with one so users could employ it they wanted to - but then again that would be admitting theres a problem and they ain't gonna do that.
The test is ongoing when I find more time - condition 3 is the mode that you carry a 1911 in the field in a flap holster.
All pistols were tested dry and lubed - after talking to more people I am convinced that the hollow area in the grip on the Glock was a problem area here - I would recommend a Buttplug for your Glock.
I did a little'pretest' on a cocked and locked 1911 in a Safariland assault holster a few days before - it consisted of pouring sand down the top of the holster onto the gun with the holster hammer hood in place. I was surprised that even though the trigger action was very gritty, the hammer would still fall and the gun would function. It surprised us testing the 1911 in condition 1 because we had preconceived notions the gun would not fire at all - we were pleasantly shocked at how well the gun performed.
Next time around I am going to test a Beretta- this time it was .45 only.
I know the Glock cult guys out there ain't digging this but thats the way it shakes - believe what you want. GIs carrying 1911s defeated Axis forces, including Austrians. The 1911 was winning battles and saving lives before Gaston Glock was even born - somewhere along the way we probably figured out a thing or two on combat handguns.
Update on the sand test; one of the guys I work with designed a cordura nylon flap that velcros in place onto a Safariland assault holster that seals the gun off and still allows a much quicker draw than if it was in a Bianchi flap holster. The result is it sealed off the gun to the point that in condition 1 with the same test mentioned above it fired 6 magazines without a single malfunction. There was no significant sand infiltration into the holster system.
Bottom line is even an accurized 1911 will serve you well in adverse environments in the right holster.
No extractor problems in this limited test
Doubt if we will do a mud test as that doesn't seem to be that much of a problem - but sand is.
The worst would have to be hitting the beach - the saltwater mixed with sand would have to be terrible. Putting the pistol in a tear away bag would seem to be the only choice.
But still the 1911 had a commendable performance. the ol' slabside still has a lot of mojo, especially for the recreational shooting community. Parts, mods, smiths are all abundant, I'd have to concede.
I dont doubt the USP cannot be torture tested to death , pero my orig post said that a cheap 1911 will OUTSHOOT the HK on the pic
And I thought the FAM drill might be a realistic test for SD situations
Anyway, ganun din naman ang SIG
It might be the mercdes Benz of pistols , pero I'll take a CZ or it's clones over it
At first, I thought I bought a lemon until I read similar reports from other users and Massad Ayoob. My USP45 rusted at the slide stop, barrel, and rear sight dovetail. And this is just due to condensation.
They failed to subject it to a test whether it will rust in the slide stop or not! ;P
If they rustproofed it, the tag price would have been higher.;f