Anger issues in local deputy.

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by HOTHEAD, May 1, 2012.

  1. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    There is an ongoing debate right now about a local officer. Apparently, the officer has been seen in a video posted on youtube, being very aggressive with his own dog. The motive behind the video is suspect at best, but the there is quite an outcry in the community that is starting to arise, that this individual has no right being an officer.

    From what I understand, the video has been posted by a disgruntled ex-girlfriend, and I understand Rottweilers can be very strong willed. I am not trying to portray my opinion one way or the other, just wanted to see what the general consensus around here about it would be.

    The actions in question start around 3 min in.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGgWp2eokYc"]Roxie Needs Your Voice - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    I'm not exactly clear on what you're asking of us? Are you asking if someone who is aggressive with their own dog should be a cop, or are you asking us to judge if he's being aggressive with his dog?

    Two different things.
     

  3. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    I'm asking if from this video, and what information you have of the back story, you think there should be a public outcry for this individual to loose his job. As stated, within the local community, this is quickly exploding in to quite a debated news story. Also, something that I missed, I guess there is a comment about" blowing somethings head off" in the clip, and it is now being talked about on all local radio this morning, that there is no way he should be in a position of authority.

    As I stated, I was not giving an opinion, just wondering if others felt that the video might be enough grounds for individuals within the community to call for his job.

    HOTHEAD
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  4. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    I would also like to say, I am not an animal advocate, nor a "cop hater". This has just become such a debated topic around here, I wondered what others might think about the situation.
     
  5. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    I didn't watch the whole video, as I am on my way to work. But, it looks to be possible that he is not good at training dogs, and has a problem temper. I'm not a professional analyst, only a federal officer.
     
  6. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    I haven't seen the video yet. I wanted clarification first. I'm just trying to gauge what your expectations are.... According to your post you want to know if we (other cops) "think there should be public outcry for this individual to lose his job."

    You're asking for a very subjective opinion. I don't believe subjective opinions are very constructive. I don't pretend to understand what appropriate "public outcry" should be. I do know that I commonly see "public outcry" demonizing cops, our tactics, and screaming bloody murder for a cop's job, when nothing was done wrong. I don't consider "public outcry", in and of itself, justification to judge anyone. Cop or not.

    While we're being completely honest here, I've learned that people who state, "I'm not a cop hater", before anyone even questions their motives, usually tend to have some agenda. It's called a preemptive denial. It's like when I'm interviewing someone, and they spontaneously say, "I'm not lying." Why would someone say that, unless that's exactly what they're doing? People who are telling the truth have no reason to bolster their statement with an unsolicited claim of honesty. Something to consider.

    Back to the original subject... I'm on my phone right now, so I don't plan on watching the video just yet. When I get to a computer, I'll take a look at it. I can offer my opinion as to whether or not I think he's being overly aggressive, but that and a $1 will only get you a cup of coffee.
     
  7. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    Tagged for lunchtime viewing
     
  8. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    I tried to make my expectations fairly clear. They were simply to determine if other deputy's felt that this person had displayed traits that would make the public's opinion of his demeanor suspect. To the point where it could be interpreted that it may affect his job.


    That's just it, it was intended to subjective, in essence a trial of his peers. That is why I asked the question here.


    If we must be honest here, my opinion is that what we are seeing a one sided argument to the person who made the video, possibly almost baited. I will admit that I am partial to rottweilers, but have known many a dog owner that my have had an overly "firm" hand growing up, but that I did not consider crossed into abusive. This is why the story initially caught my attention.

    As to the "cop hater" argument, I can assure you that there is no question of that whatsoever. Not only am I supportive of my local PD & and other local depts such as fire, and town council, I have family within each dept locally.

    The reason I felt the need to make the comment was this is GT, and the first reply's one will get in ANY forum here, is that you are limp wristing it, and you hate cops. So I felt the need to address that before I was called a "cop hater" which somehow still managed to be implied.

    My intention was not to be argumentative, but simply to ask the opinion of others that share the burden being in the public's eye. Does this individual seem to display anger issues that may be a red flag.

    Regards
    HOTHEAD
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  9. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    with your screen name it makes us wonder??
     
  10. FL Airedale

    FL Airedale Dog Breath

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    I'm a dog lover and have spent a lot of time training dogs and going to dog training classes. I mean classes that are taught by professionals.

    I saw no abuse in this video. So he used the "f" word. He threatened to beat the dog. Saying it and doing it are two different things. The dog didn't seem to care.

    If he'd ever actually abused the dog physically, the dog would have behaved very differently.

    He grabbed the dog by the scruff and put her down. She actually fell down when he scruffed her. He didn't have to wrestle her down, indicating to me that he'd done it before.

    This is a humane way of showing a dog who is boss. I've done it and my 125 pound wife has done it. We have large terriers and they can be headstrong. It's a lot better than hitting a dog.

    The guy was in a bad mood and that is not the best time to train a dog. That doesn't tell me that he is not fit to be a police officer or own a dog. He's human and anyone can have a bad day.

    The dog also seems to have an advocate in the household. Abuse the dog and he is going to have to deal with the woman too.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  11. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    To be slightly sarcastic, don't judge a book by its cover.

    regards
    HOTHEAD
     
  12. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    Okay... I watched the video. First, I want to point out that video appears to be extremely self serving. There was only a short portion of that video showing him with the dog (42 seconds out of 6 1/2 minutes). Most of that video was written accusations, punctuated by pictures of the dog, and set to a Kelly Clarkson song.

    I'm no expert, but I did not see any actual abuse. He yelled and cussed, held her down, and grabbed her by the scruff of the neck. He did not punch, kick, slap, or otherwise hit her. He kept telling her to get into her cage, which she wasn't doing. This could explain his attitude. The girlfriend, who made this video, wasn't helping his cause. It almost seemed like she was subversively encouraging the dog to defy the guy.

    The second audio portion sounded like he was again trying to correct the dog to "get down". Again, the girlfriend wasn't helping his cause. A good portion of that audio had as much to do with the guy breaking up with his girlfriend, as it was having to do with the dog.

    The guy could be an a-hole, who would benefit from some counseling. I can't tell. That video was obviously meant to cast him in a negative light, and both of those short clips could have easily been taken out of context. I think they were both obviously recorded with an agenda.

    As far as dog training goes, I haven't a clue. A quick internet search led me to a site dedicated to training Rottweilers,that had this quote:

    "You see, it turns out Rottweilers aren’t always the easy option so many of us are led to believe. What I hadn’t realized is that Rottweilers have distinct behavior patterns and that if these aren’t acknowledged, taken into account and dealt with in the right way, a Rottweiler can quickly become a stubborn, destructive and hostile pet. I had been doing it all wrong – and I can’t tell you how guilty I felt."

    I don't have an personal experience with Rotts, but it makes sense that they are head strong. That sounds like the perfect recipe for plenty of owners (not just this guy) to resort to trying to train or correct their dogs with less than effective methods.

    It's reasonable to believe he (and Roxie) would benefit from some professional training.

    Do I think he shouldn't be a cop? I don't know the guy, or how he does his job. A short video and audio clip aren't enough for anyone to come to any kind of conclusion.

    M2CW
     
  13. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    I see where you're coming from.

    I wasn't trying to be argumentative either. I was just pointing out an observation about something we see a lot here.

    :cheers:
     
  14. razdog76

    razdog76 Heavy Mettle

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    Thanks txlepd, I was thinking along the same line, but had not put it together.

    Honestly HOTHEAD, I don't want to watch the video. What if the man in question was not an LEO? LEO's get public outcry for doing exactly what we are supposed to do. The question seems best answered by the people living where it happened.
     
  15. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    This is exactly the opinion I am taking in some of the local forums that I frequent. I admit I like to play devils advocate, but there is nothing in the video that I myself have not done with my dogs over the years. I do not claim to be proud of it, but do admit to having done it, and learned from it.

    Over the years, I have learned that there are better ways of training dogs, and as stated, I am a rottweiler owner. Especially when training dogs that have the potential of having aggression issues, aggression may not always be a good training tool.

    The reason for the post was, do you feel that because of this, this individual should lose his job. According to quite a few people locally, it is by all means a nail in the coffin.

    The only other thing I can add is that I have not gone back to watch the video again and really concentrate on the "blow somethings head off" comment. When I started following this story, it was more about the dog abuse in contrast to his ability to do his job, and I must admit I kind of missed that part.

    Regards
    HOTHEAD
     
  16. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    the video does not look good however I don't know the total circumstances .
    he certainly is not what I would call a good trainer

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  17. Dexters

    Dexters

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    "Now Roxie has no one to protect her."

    Talk about a biased video - first the slides and music then the words setting up the PO for a major fall.

    Short answer - ALL people should be judged by their performance on their job. (Except if they have a contract with a morality clause in their contract or break the law.)

    Dog bites man - not a story.

    Bitter girlfriend, bites previous boyfriend with slanted/edited damming video - a story.

    Since the PO is a white male, he of course is GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  18. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    Without trying to get the thread locked, this does seem to be becoming an issue lately in the media.
     
  19. HOTHEAD

    HOTHEAD

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    I will go on record and say that I 100% do not feel that there is anything in this video that should cause departmental review. In no way does any part of it reflect on his ability to do his job.

    With that being said, I'm sure that there is already some kind of review going on, there are probably multiple animal agency's contacting his superiors, and this person needs to realize that part of the job means that EVERYTHING he does will be scrutinized 1000 fold. I'm sure that in the comfort of his own home it he felt it was not a concern.
     
  20. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    I'm just hoping that the wiretapping laws in that state are such that anything that happened in his private home that he did not consent to being taped while doing is a violation of the law .

    since he was not in the public I think he has an expectation of privacy in his own home .
    speaking only for myself I would find that very ironic if the person who took that video was arrested on felony charges ... And i would enjoy it
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    Last edited: May 1, 2012