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A question was the class door a steel vault door or the 2 inch hardwood.Any pictures.And if he shot thru it why Would not the police? there was a ton of ar-15s on scene or was that 3 hours later for photo op's. And after it is all said and done. what are they patrolling with armored tank type vehicles for other shooters that they missed.I watched and heard hours and hours of footage. door picture please.
and the nine cops in T shirts and team ball caps with glocks with one mag? or maybe more. I would like to see cell phone capture from all those police in that hour.IF anyone knows the door types and equipped police on site. let us know.
So you think blindly firing through a door into an occupied classroom is a reasonable idea?

Not only are the news talking heads claiming the police didn't do enough, but they are now questioning "friendly fire".

They want a more aggressive police response, but don't understand forcing your way into a room with a suspect and innocent people to get into a gun fight with the suspect might result in some bad outcomes.

I wonder what the walls are made of in that school. Because if you get into that gunfight, inside a room, with rifles.................. I'm pretty sure round will be going through walls.
 

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I still want to know why a person shooting outside a school didn't result in a lockdown.

Apparently, the lockdown was only called AFTER the suspect was in the school, and not everyone heard it.

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Also according to that last news report I linked, info wasn't going from the 9-1-1 center to the incident commander.
 

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Well they said all the kids and teachers had all been killed in first five minutes so yeah shooting thru door might work or did he have the 19 children and 2 teachers bodies stacked by the door. I am asking a question and yes I have been in gunfight situations ambushed on patrol.and scared.but fired and got the fwuck out alive.sometimes you take a risk.and win.seems I just asked a question no arguement with you.and if you cant act civilly with another forum member and answered the door question and how many charged in shooting. Sorry to upset you.
 

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Well they said all the kids and teachers had all been killed in first five minutes so yeah shooting thru door might work or did he have the 19 children and 2 teachers bodies stacked by the door. I am asking a question and yes I have been in gunfight situations ambushed on patrol.and scared.but fired and got the fwuck out alive.sometimes you take a risk.and win.seems I just asked a question no arguement with you.and if you cant act civilly with another forum member and answered the door question and how many charged in shooting. Sorry to upset you.
He was thought to be a barricaded suspect with hostages.
 

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This looks incredibly bad for law enforcement. My department has personal experience with an active shooter in our city. As people have said some major mistakes were made and even if the shooting wasn't secondary teams should have been evacuating, looking for wounded. We also encountered locked doors, but were able to get keys quickly. Our response wasn't perfect but was a much better response than the current one unfolding. I cannot fathom not going in and at least trying to breach the door or windows. Luckily our department has the resources to train and equip us with proper gear for such incidents (rifles, plate hangers, helmets). Hopefully everyone will be able to learn from this incident. Those poor guys have to live with doing nothing when it mattered.

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Yes later.well thanks for that I have a friend in Texas ranger and az ranger who is on site.i will email and try and find out those few answers.nothing more to say on the matter now.everybody try and have a remembrance of memorial days.prayers are up for my nephew
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Pretty Ladies!
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Looks like Chief Arredondo is going under the bus on this one. I get why he made the tactical decision that he did and I also get why, particularly with the benefit of hindsight, it was the wrong decision to make.
 

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Looks like Chief Arredondo is going under the bus on this one. I get why he made the tactical decision that he did and I also get why, particularly with the benefit of hindsight, it was the wrong decision to make.
I did see a Foxnews article where it said that Chief thought they were all dead in the classroom, so the barricade makes more sense in that situation. Not sure accurate that is though, especially considering the 911 call at 12:16pm.

Does anyone know how many kids inside the room survived?
 

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That governor is a real trophy. He’s angry that he wasn’t given 100% of the hard facts within a day of the incident. Apparently based on the criminal investigations he’s personally conducted of complex, confusing events involving multiple agencies and dozens of witnesses - most of them children of single-digit age - he knows that the Rangers should have it all wrapped all up. What a quack.
 

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The second person under the bus needs to be the teacher who propped the back door open. According to the press conference, a teacher is on video propping the rear door open a few minutes before Ramos arrived. I'm not overly prone to conspiracy theories, but I'm sure that they're going nuts on 4chan and such places.

All law enforcement failures aside, that act, which is totally on school staff and not the cops, is the most critical point of failure in this whole sorry incident. Security features don't work if the people they're supposed to protect don't use them.
 

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"I get why he made the tactical decision that he did"

Would love for him to take questions on what evidence he was given to make that conclusion. Clearly nobody was providing him the 911 call info from the kids.
 

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@merlynusn

Yeah, that 911 call at 1216 hrs should have kicked something loose in Arredondo's noggin that he needed to shift tactics. Especially since there are reports that the Border Patrol teams were arriving by then.


The agents from Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrived at some point between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m., according to the officials — far earlier than previously known. But they did not breach the adjoining classrooms of the school where the gunman had locked himself in until a little before 1 p.m. Members of the federal tactical team killed the gunman.

The officials said that members of the Uvalde Police Department kept the federal agents from going in sooner.
 
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Discussion Starter · #158 ·
So.... three days before the mass murder at the Uvalde elementary school, this law enforcement training event was held at the Uvalde high school: https://www.facebook.com/.../posts/d41d8cd9/317805947078308/

Screenshot in case they take it down:
View attachment 1071604
They don’t appear to be the lead guys on scene. They were the school cops who responded with regular patrol and were in the shootout. The question is could those particular cops press forward at that time. Let’s see what develops because the initial reports were wrong and there is push back on the story that they could have moved forward or did nothing
 

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I really hate “hindsight” and Monday morning quarterbacking. It’s bad enough when the media and lay people do it, but it’s ten times worse when Law Enforcement Bureaucrats start scapegoating and throwing other LE under the bus to save their own careers.

The shooter was the bad guy, not the responding law enforcement officers. The police are always wrong these days. If they had rushed in and gotten some children killed in a crossfire situation then they would have been vilified. By not going in, they are being vilified. It’s a lose-lose situation for the officers in question. They are the silent victims here, and their lives are over as they knew it. I would not be surprised if some of them didn’t take the “long walk.” You don’t think they feel bad enough without being crucified in the media?

I’ve been teaching and training for active shooter scenarios since Columbine. Training crisis entries for a couple of decades before that. Hindsight is always going to be 20/20, but when the balloon goes up, you go with what you know at the time. You pray to God that your actions don’t get innocent people killed and you do everything you can to promote reverence for human lives. Throwing these officers under the bus is just shameful.
 

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walkingfu61 said:
They don’t appear to be the lead guys on scene.
They were in fact, the lead on the scene. It was their Chief Pete Arredondo who was the on-site incident commander McCraw referenced as having made the bad decisions.
 
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