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Anyone know what the school protocols were? A while back while they were teaching ALICE, for example, lockdowns were primarily for external threats, but once the bad guy was inside some schools had an evac plan to move away from the shooting. I’m just wondering if there was a communication failure, there usually is, that lead to a class door being opened when it should not have been.

It’ll be interesting to hear, if we ever get to, the instructions given inside the school, by school personnel, to school personnel during this thing.
 

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Florist
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The TxDPS briefing this afternoon produced more questions than answers. This is what can happen when an agency feels pressured to release information before they've been checked, double checked.

One thing is clear is that the shooter did the majority of his shooting very, very soon after he barricaded himself in the classroom, meaning he shot the kids within minutes.
 

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Pretty Ladies!
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I really, really hate to recommend the New York Times, but they're updating a lot of information. Subscription required to read most of it, unfortunately. I'll copy and quote as much as the mods will let me get away with, because screw the NY Times.

One of the more hysterical complaints I've seen was that some of the cops went in and evacuated their own kids, but wouldn't let all the grief- crazed parents into get their kids. Turns out that's true, but it's not that nefarious or shocking. From the Times:

Jacob Albarado had just sat down for a haircut when he got a text message from his wife Trisha, a fourth-grade teacher at Robb Elementary.
“There’s an active shooter,” she said in the message. “Help,” and then: “I love you.”
Mr. Albarado, an off-duty Border Patrol officer, ran out of the barbershop and sped to the school.
His wife and the children she taught were hiding under desks and behind curtains. Their daughter, a second grader at Robb, was locked in a bathroom, she said.
Once he got to the school, he learned that a tactical team was already forming to enter the wing where the shooter was holed up. So Mr. Albarado quickly made a plan with other officers at the scene: evacuate as many children as possible.
Armed with a shotgun that his barber had lent him, Mr. Albarado said he led his colleagues toward the wing of the school that housed his daughter’s classroom.
“I’m looking for my daughter, but I also know
what wing she’s in,” he said, “so I start clearing all the classes in her wing.”
Two officers provided cover, guns drawn, he said, and two others guided the children out on the sidewalk. They brought out dozens of kids and their teachers, he said, many of whom emerged screaming.
“They were just all hysterical, of course,” he said.
When he finally saw his 8-year-old daughter Jayda, he said he hugged her, but then kept moving the other children along.
“I did what I was trained to do,” Mr. Albarado said.


So, yes, this guy went and got his wife and kids. But he got everyone else's kids who were in that wing as well. And he was evacuating the other wing away from where the shooter was barricaded. That's tactically sound. It's not like he was rushing the part of the school where the shooter was, grabbing just his kids, and running back out.

Anyway, here's the link to the rest of the NY Times stories and updates.

 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
I really, really hate to recommend the New York Times, but they're updating a lot of information. Subscription required to read most of it, unfortunately. I'll copy and quote as much as the mods will let me get away with, because screw the NY Times.

One of the more hysterical complaints I've seen was that some of the cops went in and evacuated their own kids, but wouldn't let all the grief- crazed parents into get their kids. Turns out that's true, but it's not that nefarious or shocking. From the Times:

Jacob Albarado had just sat down for a haircut when he got a text message from his wife Trisha, a fourth-grade teacher at Robb Elementary.
“There’s an active shooter,” she said in the message. “Help,” and then: “I love you.”
Mr. Albarado, an off-duty Border Patrol officer, ran out of the barbershop and sped to the school.
His wife and the children she taught were hiding under desks and behind curtains. Their daughter, a second grader at Robb, was locked in a bathroom, she said.
Once he got to the school, he learned that a tactical team was already forming to enter the wing where the shooter was holed up. So Mr. Albarado quickly made a plan with other officers at the scene: evacuate as many children as possible.
Armed with a shotgun that his barber had lent him, Mr. Albarado said he led his colleagues toward the wing of the school that housed his daughter’s classroom.
“I’m looking for my daughter, but I also know
what wing she’s in,” he said, “so I start clearing all the classes in her wing.”
Two officers provided cover, guns drawn, he said, and two others guided the children out on the sidewalk. They brought out dozens of kids and their teachers, he said, many of whom emerged screaming.
“They were just all hysterical, of course,” he said.
When he finally saw his 8-year-old daughter Jayda, he said he hugged her, but then kept moving the other children along.
“I did what I was trained to do,” Mr. Albarado said.


So, yes, this guy went and got his wife and kids. But he got everyone else's kids who were in that wing as well. And he was evacuating the other wing away from where the shooter was barricaded. That's tactically sound. It's not like he was rushing the part of the school where the shooter was, grabbing just his kids, and running back out.

Anyway, here's the link to the rest of the NY Times stories and updates.

Thank you for the new info. The initial press conference reports were wrong. The SRO police appear to have engaged but not when initially reported and responded with the initial patrol officers. Who then engaged and tied him down to the one classroom .

 

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Pretty sure the school district police officer is getting called "SRO" in the initial reports.

The question of when that officer got there, and what they did is still in flux.

But SRO or school district LEO, is a battle of semantics.
I disagree with you on the SRO. An SRO is typically considered assigned to a school to provide immediate law enforcement support. A school district police officer is not assigned to a school and is not fulfilling dutied an SRO does. They would be doing whatever their assigned duties are. So if its just a school district LEO then that isnt an SRO.

My old dept would staff the SROs and police response to the schools even though the school system had their own LE agency.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
I disagree with you on the SRO. An SRO is typically considered assigned to a school to provide immediate law enforcement support. A school district police officer is not assigned to a school and is not fulfilling dutied an SRO does. They would be doing whatever their assigned duties are. So if its just a school district LEO then that isnt an SRO.

My old dept would staff the SROs and police response to the schools even though the school system had their own LE agency.
If the person who is being called an SRO wasn’t assigned to that school and wasn’t at the school when the situation occurred then he or she should not be called the SRO
 

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Pretty Ladies!
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Pretty Ladies!
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I dunno. The County School system where I worked has it's own police force. For most of my career they deployed four of the officers at each of the high schools. Then there was an officer or two assigned to float between the middle schools in each district. The elementary schools didn't have a permanently assigned officer.

After Broward County shooting, they passed a tax measure to fund having an officer in every school including all the elementary schools. They're poaching officers like crazy who are eligible to retire from my old PD to make it happen.

I don't think it's unusual to not have a full- time SRO at an elementary school.
 

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We can’t blame the press. It was the information give out to them at the official news conference
That’s true, some of it was from LE sources and that’s on us. Other info, such as police just “waiting” for 40 minutes seems to have come from civilian sources who were simply speculating about what LE was doing. As police we’re definitely responsible for the accuracy of the info we put out to the media, but there’s a good deal more circulating about this shooting than what was released by LE. The media has shown itself happy to use unverified info in the quest to get something out. (Broadly speaking of course. There are of course some ethical outlets and reporters out there.)
 

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OLY-M4gery said:
You said there was no SRO. Let me remind you of your post, from the last page.
Huh?

There was no SRO. This entire thread is based on a false premise.


That was an entire post, by you. Go check it from the last page. We will wait.

thanks for waiting. Could not cut/paste/quote earlier.

I was referring to these comments made by DPS but could not paste them:

Victor Escalon, Texas Department of Public Safety regional director, said Thursday at an impromptu press conference that the shooter was never engaged by a school resource officer, contradicting a report that the department provided a day earlier.

“Escalon added that no police or law-enforcement officers were present at the school at the time, which allowed the shooter to enter the school unobstructed. He said that police officers responded to reports of shots fired at the school at 11:44 a.m. local time, four minutes after Ramos was reported to have entered.

Escalon forcefully pushed back against suggestions that police declined to enter the school after arriving at the premises, as has been suggested by parents of students with videos circulating on social media.
He also dismissed suggestions that an officer with the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police service had confronted the suspect outside the school before he entered.

Instead, he said, 18-year-old Salvador Ramos crashed his grandmother’s truck at 11:28 a.m., climbed the school fence and entered the west side of the school at 11:40 a.m. through the back door without facing police resistance.
 

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This just keeps getting worse.

Victor Escalon, Texas Department of Public Safety regional director for South Texas said Thursday the officers who first arrived on the scene did not make entry initially because of the "gunfire they're receiving," adding that the U.S. Border Patrol tactical teams arrived one hour later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
This just keeps getting worse.

Victor Escalon, Texas Department of Public Safety regional director for South Texas said Thursday the officers who first arrived on the scene did not make entry initially because of the "gunfire they're receiving," adding that the U.S. Border Patrol tactical teams arrived one hour later.
By what to they mean by entry? The school or the classroom itself. They had a shootout where? In the hallway or outside the school?
 

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I really, really hate to recommend the New York Times, but they're updating a lot of information. Subscription required to read most of it, unfortunately. I'll copy and quote as much as the mods will let me get away with, because screw the NY Times.

One of the more hysterical complaints I've seen was that some of the cops went in and evacuated their own kids, but wouldn't let all the grief- crazed parents into get their kids. Turns out that's true, but it's not that nefarious or shocking. From the Times:

Jacob Albarado had just sat down for a haircut when he got a text message from his wife Trisha, a fourth-grade teacher at Robb Elementary.
“There’s an active shooter,” she said in the message. “Help,” and then: “I love you.”
Mr. Albarado, an off-duty Border Patrol officer, ran out of the barbershop and sped to the school.
His wife and the children she taught were hiding under desks and behind curtains. Their daughter, a second grader at Robb, was locked in a bathroom, she said.
Once he got to the school, he learned that a tactical team was already forming to enter the wing where the shooter was holed up. So Mr. Albarado quickly made a plan with other officers at the scene: evacuate as many children as possible.
Armed with a shotgun that his barber had lent him, Mr. Albarado said he led his colleagues toward the wing of the school that housed his daughter’s classroom.
“I’m looking for my daughter, but I also know
what wing she’s in,” he said, “so I start clearing all the classes in her wing.”
Two officers provided cover, guns drawn, he said, and two others guided the children out on the sidewalk. They brought out dozens of kids and their teachers, he said, many of whom emerged screaming.
“They were just all hysterical, of course,” he said.
When he finally saw his 8-year-old daughter Jayda, he said he hugged her, but then kept moving the other children along.
“I did what I was trained to do,” Mr. Albarado said.


So, yes, this guy went and got his wife and kids. But he got everyone else's kids who were in that wing as well. And he was evacuating the other wing away from where the shooter was barricaded. That's tactically sound. It's not like he was rushing the part of the school where the shooter was, grabbing just his kids, and running back out.

Anyway, here's the link to the rest of the NY Times stories and updates.

Out-freaking-standing. Rushing to save wife and daughter, using the training, mindset and clarity of thinking that's representative of the best we all hope to portray in dire circumstances.

And a special thank you to the barber who loaned him a shotgun (and had one close at hand to loan).

Saving not just his loved ones, but the loved ones of all the other families. 🇺🇸🚓
 

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I read a report that said a child in the room responded to LEOs "call out if you need help" and when she called out, the gunman shot her. I think one of the surviving kids said that.
 
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One of the lessons learned from this tragedy might - hopefully - be that while everyone demands transparency and instant answers to any and all questions during a crisis, giving out information that hasn't been thoroughly vetted and confirmed can cause more confusion and strife, and no real benefit may obtained by genuflecting at the altar of transparency. Don't be bullied by the media eager to 'get it out first'. Sigh. That's on LE.
 

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Texas is the home to ALERRT, one of the pre-eminent active shooter training programs hosted by the Texas State University. Those trained in active shootings should know the protocols for active shooter versus barricaded shooter. That being said, there will be lots of questions, some very deep investigations and ultimately, there will be reports showing the failures and the wins including whether remaining fixed was appropriate or if the PD, Sheriff's office and school staff had any recent ASR training. But it should drive home to schools to not get complacent with security, especially with copycats wanting their 15 minutes of grim fame.

Shields, breaching equipment and training should not be a luxury for agencies. It's damnable shame that the Biden Administration and their ilk won't see that and fund that rather than worrying about little used LVNRs. The money recently spent on supporting Ukraine could have paid for shields, breaching tools and compensation for training time for every agency in the US. Hell, all the money spent on Ukraine over the last three months could have paid for added physical security to nearly every rural or small school district in our country. But politicians want dead kids to push their agendas and will blame agencies for the failures rather than appropriately harden and secure schools.
 

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Shields, breaching equipment and training should not be a luxury for agencies. It's damnable shame that the Biden Administration and their ilk won't see that and fund that rather than worrying about little used LVNRs. The money recently spent on supporting Ukraine could have paid for shields, breaching tools and compensation for training time for every agency in the US. Hell, all the money spent on Ukraine over the last three months could have paid for added physical security to nearly every rural or small school district in our country. But politicians want dead kids to push their agendas and will blame agencies for the failures rather than appropriately harden and secure schools.
Because a week from now the narrative will switch back to don't militarize the police. That and "it never happens here".

There is so much bad info to sift through.

The SRO engaged the shooter prior to entering the school......... no, the school district LEO arrived on scene after the suspect was inside the building.

The suspect was wearing body armor............ no, a tac vest, w/o armor plates.

It seems once Border Patrol LEO's went in they couldn't breach the classroom door until a school staff member provided a key.

This also seems to be one of the few active shooters that actually engaged the police, instead of running away or committing suicide when the police arrived.

But, any analysis of this, or other mass shootings, will include people that want the answer to be guns are evil. So it will be tough to get meaningful changes as a result.
 

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There was no SRO even on the scene.

Basically what happened is the cops lied their asses off and sat around in body armor holding ARs while a madman slaughterd children for up to an hour. They did however find time to taze and detain parents trying to rush the shool unarmed in an attempt to save their childen because the coward ass cops were doing nothing...


Great job!

Warren vs DC, 1981, a federal court ruling, established that police have no specific duty to protect members of the public. Your saftey and security are soley up to you. It's become crystal clear that the police in this country aren't going to do a damn thing for you.

I wonder why resement and distrust of police is at an all time high?

 
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