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Discussion Starter · #436 ·
And the SCOTUS has already ruled that the police have no responsibility to individuals.
The school with the locks have a liability. The police in this case might have a liability. They physically prevented an officer who was active shooter trained from entering and possibly saving his wife .Some one prevented the Border patrol team from going in earlier. There might be a legal difference in the doctrine that while the police don’t have a responsibility but they might have legal liability for their overt actions. Something the court might consider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #438 ·
Yeah, I am aware of that. You don't think some attorney will file suit and a judge will allow the suit? But let's get deeper into this. WHY were those officers there? It seems like they were there specifically responding to those individuals. They just responded in the wrong way according to most every agency out there. THAT is another reason they will be sued. THEIR INACTION contributed to the death of those murdered children and teachers. Do you agree?
At a minimum, I think a judge will let it go to the discovery phase.
 

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Discussion Starter · #441 ·
And the SCOTUS has already ruled that the police have no responsibility to individuals.
That’s not completely true. People in custody and other special relationships, police do.
But the lawsuits against Peterson were tossed out.
The school however is going to be buried in the lawsuit. The locksmith may be sued as well.
And you know they are going try to sue the gun dealer and manufacturer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #443 ·
Yeah but the BP SWAT Team took action. I guess you side with the Mayor and what the DPS Director said in the Senate hearing is false or the mayor said, lies?
They took action AFTER they got a key. The DPS director did mislead the senate when asked why they didn’t take over. The ALERRT training says that if someone “goes in” to directly engage the gunman, even if they are senior leadership, they are no longer incident commander or tac coordinator. That position goes to a supervisor outside the hot zone. DPS or Uvalde was in charge but didn’t step up.
And the state senator mentioned how in the military if they are out of contact with their leader, someone steps up. The school chief was out of contact in a school that the radios didn’t work in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #445 ·
Law enforcement does a poor job of this. Supervisors should be teaching their jobs to those below them. Ive seen it happen, but it’s extremely rare.
Yep. A steady bosses’s driver often picks up much of what the boss does and is tasked to do some it when things get busy. But that takes time and only really works in a busy command .
 

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Discussion Starter · #448 · (Edited)
Yeah, but BP SWAT TOOK action. NO ONE went in to engage the shooter prior to BP so you being stuck on WHO was IC is moot. There was no reason to set up anything outside the hot zone because well it was a hot zone with kids being murdered. You think in that confusion, a DPS Sgt. Trooper is going to take over command of a clear chit sammich? Is that how they do it in NYC? The radios, not checking the door, the open door into the school are all issues but has 0 to do with Officers coming onscene and not engaging the shooter for 45min. How you don't think that is a problem is beyond me.
Okay. You sent up staging area for medical right. Even escort for EMS. Sents up evac routes? The units that will evac the wounded ? Who sets that up or at least gives that assignment. The IC. Who coordinates the follow up units like SWAT, hostage negotiations etc. The IC is the answer. Where do you think the SWAT was placed when they arrived. Who makes the ultimate decision to send in SWAT? The IC.
If the Uvalde or DPS followed the training , they could or would have sent in SWAT right away or even ordered the tac teams to rush the door. Or a second tax team to go through the windows.
Who would make the decision to send another tac team through the windows or something ( the tac coordinator or IC).
The tax coordinator or IC tells the teams their mission or orders. You can’t coordinate that if you are actively involved with the suspect yourself . You just can’t . You can tell what you want but someone else has to actually coordinate it.
The everybody just rushes in doesn’t work well and adds to confusion. All those people with plainclothes often add to the confusion including making people believe that there is a second shooter. Or cause people to engage with friendly forces.
Imagine if the shooter jumped out the window as the first units where in the hallway. Someone has to coordinate that someone is covering that avenue of escape. And to make surehe doesn’t go out the windows and return to other classrooms.
The everyone just running in delays these actions.
Take the ASIM course by ALERRT. I took the course with people who dealt with this situation in real life as well as my own experience with armed criminals in sensitive locations/situations. They will prove that the staging area after the initial teams go in is faster. It’s like a fire drill. The orderly response is overall faster and they prove it in the training . Simmuntions in basic. Computer sims in ASIM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #449 ·
And let me add, the staging area especially works when radio communications are difficult at best. As the units come in, I could tap them on the shoulder and tell them— cover the back. You enter through the south side with that EMS crew( pointing at them) to the hallway. You evacuate the second floor out the south side entrance to the funeral home. Hold everyone there, in case they witnessed something and we might need that info.
We had a situation where we thought there was only one robber. The witness we detained not only told us about the second but was able to point him out where the other victims couldn’t .
People just running in, lose these witnesses who might be needed at a moment’s notice.
Note this is after the first teams go in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #454 · (Edited)
Yeah, but BP SWAT TOOK action. NO ONE went in to engage the shooter prior to BP so you being stuck on WHO was IC is moot. There was no reason to set up anything outside the hot zone because well it was a hot zone with kids being murdered. You think in that confusion, a DPS Sgt. Trooper is going to take over command of a clear chit sammich? Is that how they do it in NYC? The radios, not checking the door, the open door into the school are all issues but has 0 to do with Officers coming onscene and not engaging the shooter for 45min. How you don't think that is a problem is beyond me.
The answer is a Hell YES. Here the second supervisor stays outside the hot zone to be the tac coordinator. He or she runs the show. Not the first supervisor who goes into the hot zone, regardless of rank( politics aside).
So a hell yes, to that question. And if you don’t think NYPD isn’t going to take over the incident from some local department inside NYPD jurisdiction like the Sea Gate police or Co-op city police, you are crazy. Yes, that Lowly NYPD sergeant is going to takeover that scene from that sea gate police chief. If it happens inside a state courthouse, the jurisdiction of court officers, hell yes, that lowly sergeant is taking over.
Taking over a s-show with a school to keep kids from dying. Hell, yes.
That SWAT team was outside waiting outside even before the search for the key should say something. The IC or tac commander outside the hot zone would have known they were available a lot earlier.

And if they believed that door was locked and they lacked proper breeching tools or training , the shooting had stopped and someone ( the school chief) declared it a hostage situation, you might wait for SWAT. A SWAT team was there and waited for the word to go in, then waited for a key. That’s when that border patrol team said, we have to go in and did. If the tac coordinator was outside where he or she knew they had SWAT available, they would have been sent in earlier. The school chief didn’t have radio communication, remember.
 

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Discussion Starter · #455 ·
In the absence of that direction, someone should of stepped up and be a leader. I think most everyone with some experience has been in a situation where they realize nothing is happening. They know something should be said, some plan should be executed, but they sat in silence. Many, if not most organizations its, “follow the chain of command”. Do what you are ordered to do. Don’t think outside the box. Fit the mold, and don’t be “that guy”.

The lack some someone stepping up and waiting for the orders that never came shows a lack of leadership development throughout the department which should begin from day one.

MY agency does a poor job with this level of leadership development, and I had lunch with a command staff member the other day to discuss this very topic. My previous agency was even more ridged with command structure and following orders, with significantly more micromanagement.

There very well may be agencies that empower their employees, encourage leadership and influence throughout their organizations. Those that encourage in the absence of leadership, or the failure of leadership to step up to the plate and be a leader. But I don’t believe that to be the norm.
Having worked in joint task forces with other agencies and even different precincts and boroughs in my own department, it varies. A busy command is used to not having a” boss” available to make a decision on certain things or the boss delegates it to a cop they trust. It becomes more of a notification rather than a request for a decision. Technically, the micromanaging in my department is crazy. A supervisor has to “verify “ every arrest. Cops and detectives we trust, it’s just a notification, but the supervisor is supposed to respond to the scene, etc etc.
I used to say I got promoted to keep the same level of responsibility used to have and make the same decisions I used to make-lol
I would complain that if cops were not allowed to make decisions as cops they won’t be able to do it when they are supervisors. Some decisions that were sergeant level decisions when I was a cop, went to the captain level and now are at the chief level in some cases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #458 ·
Well I can tell you an outside agency here in TX is not gonna come in and take over (especially something like this) unless specifically asked. We obviously disagree but I say you are still missing the point. Forget IC and setting up outside the hot zone as you call it and telling the tac commander in the inner perimeter anything.
IF an active shooter is actively you know shooting people, you go in sans SWAT Team. I mean most agencies have had the discussion of solo officer and a team response of 2-4 officers (as many as you can immediately get). They had at least 3 officers initially, and it never sounds like they planned on going in because now we find they didn't even check the door. I don't think you can say they didn't hear the gunshots so what is your explanation for them not doing that? THIS has been my whole point from the very start a f this discussion. They had enough time to disarm a fellow officer trying to get to his wife. I mean WTF? How on earth do you have school police that haven't even discussed how to respond to this. Whoever decided to treat it like a barricaded person (Arredondo or someone else) really set the train wreck in motion.

Now once other agencies come onscene, I can see where they respond to what officers already onscene say.
There is no excuse for the first four guys if the door wasn’t locked. Did they honestly believe the door was locked? They did convince the others the door was locked.

But the IC or tac commander is supposed to be outside even for a small department. And if Uvalde or DPS didn’t have the balls to takeover thsts on them especially if it goes against the active shooter management training and that it’s another outside department being tasked with the mission .
Why is the tac commander outside the hot zone? The school chief kind of said himself. He was too busy holding a rifle to use his radio if he had one. They also didn’t have radio communication inside. He didn’t know about the 911 calls inside in s timely fashion. He probably didn’t know the SWAT team was there for awhile . That’s why the IC isn’t inside. The IC is an overall commander , that’s why they have a Tac coordinator, known under a different name in training due to that leadership issue mentioned as to whom that person will be initially.
The IC is also responsible to make sure medical units are ready. The investigation unit is ready , not just to investigate the aftermath but info on what they are up against like interview the witnesses ( does the person have IEDs, an accomplice etc) . He can’t do that where the school chief was. How is he going to delegate those jobs and follow up if he so busy he can’t even hold a radio.
And you speak as if I haven’t had to make that decision to take the door. I have.

I alreadyPM they info on this to you about how and who is the tac coordinator and how he takes over if the chief of police himself is one of the first units to go in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #460 ·
Dude, I have watched this thread and related threads. I have watched your endless cheerleading for AvonFatAssDonDo. You've once again impressed me as an admin Pogue, inflicted upon real men in spite of your vast and overwhelming incompetence. How DARE you quote ALERRT to defend a gutless coward who played with himself in a hallway instead of stepping up to be the IC. You keep stepping up to defend him from the criticism he richly deserves. This situation called for brutal action by violent men. Not endless simpering and inaction.
I am not defending him based on ALERRT training. He screwed up but it should have not mattered as much as it did. Someone else was supposed to take over!!! He should have not been in charge. He was over his head. That’s why ALERRT doesn’t have the tac team leaders doing tac coordinating or the IC. This wasn’t just one guy’s screwup, It was multiple screw ups! And scapegoating the school chief is just covering up the real problem. Heck, from what is in the press, the school chief was not trained in active shooter management. Just basic active shooter. 8 hours isn’t enough to learn how to manage or practice management skills at such a level.

And as to my incompetence ? Calling me an admin guy? I put more handcuffs on people as a supervisor than most cops do in their entire career. That’s as a supervisor not just when zi was a cop. Want to motivate your slug officers to be active and make their own arrests. Threaten to find one for them and do it. Not reassign someone else’s hard work but go out yourself and hand them one . I was very hands on as a supervisor. And if any of us were to get hurt, it was more likely to me . I have taken doors both as a cop and supervisor. Have you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #462 ·
The chief was one of the first on scene. IIRC 2 Uvalde officers received grazing wounds, after they arrived on scene. They claimed they didn't know where the gunfire was coming from and retreated.

The chief may have been the first officer that made it into the school to the outside of rooms 111 and 112.

He claims he wasn't in charge. He didn't have any radios, or body armor.

BUT HE WAS DIRECTING WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THAT HALLWAY.

Asking for keys, shields, breaching tools, and perhaps directing other officers to evacuate the rest of the school. But he claims he wasn't in charge.

A DPS Agent (not sure what that means) flat out told the group in the hallway, if there were injured in with the suspect, THEY NEEDED TO MAKE ENTRY.

The chief who wasn't in charge, said the walls were paper thin, and they needed to evacuate the surrounding classrooms, to "save" those students.

Breaching tools, ballistic shields, and keys were in that hallway within minutes, but the chief, who wasn't in charge, still kept the other officers from going in.

One of those classroom doors had a lock that wasn't working, so it wasn't keeping the door shut. Per Col McCraw, the lock itself was working, but the strike plate in doorframe was misaligned, so the door wouldn't lock shut.

Arguing about ICS, when the guy in charge, who doesn't have a radio, he had a cellphone, is making tactical decisions, and scene management decisions, he attempted to negotiate with the shooter, but he also claims he wasn't the incident commander, is pointless.

He wasn't following active shooter protocols, or ICS protocols.

But he doesn't seem to understand how bad this response was.

It's like once there was a closed door between LE and the shooter it became a barricaded suspect call, in the chief's mind. Or, the chief was completely unable to take a course of action, engage an active shooter, that would result in ANY death caused be LE, even if it was the active shooter that died.
And hence, someone else is supposed to take command of the incident. It’s in the training . He was commanding as a tac team leader who would be doing that until a tac coordinator came up. He wants to be an IC, then he should have appointed one of the cops there tac team leaders and went out to where he could communicate with his people and properly direct them—ie relieve them tac coordinator. He didn’t do that . The IC should have been someone else, period.
That person who took over could have said “Go in, Go in, Go in” or told SWAT to go in as soon as they got there. Border Patrol had the balls enough to say “ Eff this. We are going in”. Some supervisor from Uvalde or DPS should have said the same .
 

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Discussion Starter · #463 · (Edited)
The chief was one of the first on scene. IIRC 2 Uvalde officers received grazing wounds, after they arrived on scene. They claimed they didn't know where the gunfire was coming from and retreated.

The chief may have been the first officer that made it into the school to the outside of rooms 111 and 112.

He claims he wasn't in charge. He didn't have any radios, or body armor.

BUT HE WAS DIRECTING WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THAT HALLWAY.

Asking for keys, shields, breaching tools, and perhaps directing other officers to evacuate the rest of the school. But he claims he wasn't in charge.

A DPS Agent (not sure what that means) flat out told the group in the hallway, if there were injured in with the suspect, THEY NEEDED TO MAKE ENTRY.

The chief who wasn't in charge, said the walls were paper thin, and they needed to evacuate the surrounding classrooms, to "save" those students.

Breaching tools, ballistic shields, and keys were in that hallway within minutes, but the chief, who wasn't in charge, still kept the other officers from going in.

One of those classroom doors had a lock that wasn't working, so it wasn't keeping the door shut. Per Col McCraw, the lock itself was working, but the strike plate in doorframe was misaligned, so the door wouldn't lock shut.

Arguing about ICS, when the guy in charge, who doesn't have a radio, he had a cellphone, is making tactical decisions, and scene management decisions, he attempted to negotiate with the shooter, but he also claims he wasn't the incident commander, is pointless.

He wasn't following active shooter protocols, or ICS protocols.

But he doesn't seem to understand how bad this response was.

It's like once there was a closed door between LE and the shooter it became a barricaded suspect call, in the chief's mind. Or, the chief was completely unable to take a course of action, engage an active shooter, that would result in ANY death caused be LE, even if it was the active shooter that died.
And they are saying because the chief was out of radio communication, he might not have known about the 911 calls from the children in a timely manner. He might not have made his mistake of calling it a hostage situation if he had known that the shooting stopped because the killer thought he ran out of victims .
The IC or tac coordinator would know this and be in a better position to make proper decisions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #466 ·
Go study your ICS chart. Tell me, and everyone else, where you find "Police Chief, who says he isn't in command, but issues commands, and veto has power over other supervisors.", on that chart. Then we can apply ICS to this. Until then, what he was doing was contradictory to ICS, and basic leadership principles.

His claim is he wasn't the IC, but he was in charge of tactical, and scene decision making.

A DPS Agent told them they needed to go in. The chief shot that down. BORTAC was also told not to go in. They didn't until the on scene BP supervisor talked with a senior BP leader, who said "do what you think is right, I will support your decision". Only after that did BORTAC and a Uvalde deputy sheriff, breach the room.

You can talk about how stuff is supposed to work all you want. They weren't following any of it.

You had a chief that grew up in Uvalde. Then became a Uvalde LEO. He went on to be a captain in the El Paso Independent School District Police. He was the chief deputy at the Webb County Sheriff's Office. Then he came back as the founding chief of the Uvalde School Police.

He should have been the best trained, and most experienced LEO on that scene.

None of the Uvalde police officers or school police officers are going to override him.

That's why no one moved when the DPS Agent said they needed to make entry.

Even when BORTAC shows up, the chief tried to keep them from going in.

BORTAC didn't go in until someone with more juice in their chain of command told them to do what they needed to do.
You are right. They didn’t follow the training . Someone should have taken over. DPS or Uvalde . No high ranking supervisor from Uvalde didn’t show up? DPS didn’t ?
The chief should have moved out from position of tac team leader to tac coordinator. But he didn’t . Someone else should have taken over especially since the chief couldn’t effectively communicate with anyone outside.
When the units outside didn’t have direct contact with him, someone has to take over.

Now let’s talk about the chart and the change in the terminology of the tac coordinator. What was the origin of the name change. I’ll PM it to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #467 ·
He was physically at the scene and could hear shooting. He really didn’t need to know about the 911 calls. In point of fact, he had as much or more information about what was happening than anyone in the area based on his personal observations of the scene. Active shooter in a classroom, still shooting. What’s the hold up? A Chief in those circumstances should not need to be told what to do, and he definitely shouldn’t be deflecting responsibility by saying he didn’t know who was in charge. He should have been.
The shooting stopped by 11:48 according to an interview with the off duty BP agent. The school chief miscalculated what he had. Without knowing what was on the 911 calls that the survivors were only alive because the gunman thought he ran out of victims rather than being hostages, it changes things.
It also denies him possible information from those calls. He could not effectively command and control from where he was - especially without effective communication. Did he even know the SWAT team was there, outside, in a timely fashion?
Someone else needed to take command especially if they had communication issues or he needed to get to a position where he could command. His bravado of not willing to leave to get a working radio or vest contributed to the lack of leadership .
But another leader should have taken over, period. That’s in the training .
 

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Discussion Starter · #470 ·
11:28:25 - Suspect crashes vehicle into ditch

11:29:02 - Two males from funeral home move toward crash

11:29:20 - Teacher calls 911 and reports and man with a gun

11:31:36 - Suspect shooting in between vehicle at school

11:31:43 - Patrol car accelerates into school parking lot, drives by shooter

11:32:08 - Multiple shots fired by suspect while outside the school

11:33:00 - Suspect Enters the school through the west door

11:33:24 - Suspect begins shooting into classroom 111/112 from hallway

11:33:32 - Suspect enters, exits, and re-enters room 111/112

11:35:55 - 3 Uvalde PD Officers enter west door (including 2 rifles)

11:36:00 - 2 UCISD officers (including Chief Arredondo) and 2 Uvalde PD officers enter through the south door

11:36:03 - 3 Uvalde PD officers and 1 UCISD officer enter through west door

11:37:00 - Suspect gunfire injuring officers approaching classroom doors

11:38:37 - Unknown Officer: "He's contained in this office."

11:40:23 - Chief Arredondo calls Uvalde PD landline

11:40:58 - Suspect Gunfire (1 round)

11:41:08 - Uvalde PD Officer: "We believe that he is barricaded in one of the offices, there's still shooting."

11:41:30 - Dispatch asks if door is locked, to which a Uvalde PD Officer replies, "I am not sure but we have a hooligan to break it."

11:41:55 - 4 First Responders enter from the east hallway: 2 Constables, Fire Marshal, UPD Officer

11:42:24 - 1 DPS Trooper and 2 UPD Officers enter from east hallway

11:44:00 - Suspect Gunfire (1 round)

11:44:28 - Uvalde PD Officer: "Have some officers that are available get everybody back."

11:48:18 - UCISD Officer Ruben Ruiz, husband of one of the teachers in the classroom, enters the west door and is heard telling officers, "She says she is shot."

11:50:53 - Unknown officer says, "They need to get out of the hallway," to which Uvalde PD Officer responds, "Chief is in there, Chief is in charge right now hold on."

news article with timeline



11:41 officers are at the door, with a breaching tool, and shots are still being fired.

11:48 Ofc Ruiz, a UISD LEO, TELLS THE OFFICERS HIS WIFE IS IN THE CLASSROOM AND HAS BEEN SHOT.

There were plenty of indicators this was not a barricaded subject, but an active shooter inside a classroom, with injured victims.
At that time, yes. I don’t disagree. After 11:48 was the time I said the shooting stopped. The rush for the door before 11:48 was definitely called for. He didn’t do it.

How are those communications relayed ? By someone outside the school, since they said the radios didn’t work inside? Not direct. The chief was in charge by the ulvade cop’s transmission. Someone else should have taken over upon their arrival outside the school or the chief should have someone relieve him in the hallway so he could control the situation .
It’s not about if the chief was deferred to. Someone else was supposed to take over who could actually coordinate the response. The phone call by the teacher saying she was shot didn’t mean it couldn’t turn into a hostage situation.


Now, compare the situation you just described to the Orlando pulse shooting. They got phone calls from people shot in the bathroom too. Orlando had backed off and it turned into a hostage situation. They established contact with the gunman etc etc. It turned into a hostage situation .

The difference was the kids calling were still hiding and weren’t shot because the gun msn didn’t know they were there and alive .

The major screw up was not to send in the SWAT team immediately if they thought they couldn’t breech the door. SWAT was outside. When did the school chief even know they were available especially if he was not in communication.
Go listen to what I PM you. Listen to how the tac coordinator in the “ warm zone” can just tap the person on the shoulder and tell them where to go and what to do. He can see what he has available as well as use the radio to coordinate the tac teams etc.How was that chief going to do that in that hallway— shout his commands ? Let the gunman know he is sending people around the back etc?

Someone should have taken over. I understand why the cops didn’t override the chief. That’s why when g th hey didn’t go in, I am not calling them cowards like many others have. It’s also why I believe BP had the guts to say “ eff this, we are going in”. They have no political connection to the school chief.
But by the training and just realistic situation, someone else should have taken over or pulled the chief back to a command area.
And yes, he screwed up. But so did the follow up forces and their leadership. The chief, despite his screwup, is a scapegoat in the way they are throwing him under the bus to hide their own failures in this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #473 ·
Timeline continued

11:51:13 - 7 Border Patrol Agents enter the west door

11:52:08 - FIRST ballistic shield enters the west door

11:52:49 - UPD Officer: "Units just showing up can you help with crowd control."

11:53:10 - Unknown officer informs a DPS Special Agent that all they need right now is perimeter.
Someone comments about whether there are still kids inside to which the DPS Special Agent responds,
"If there is they just need to go in."

11:54:14 - DPS Special Agent enters the west building and is directed on where the suspect focus is. He asks an unknown officer, "Are kids still in there?"
The unknown officer responds, "It is unknown at this time."

11:54:15 - Uvalde PD Officer: "He's in classroom 111 or 112 But Chief is making contact with him. No one has made contact with him."

11:56:49 - Unknown Officer: "Y'all don't know if there's kids in there?"
DPS SA: "If there's kids in there, we need to go in there."
Unknown Officer: "What's that?"
DPS SA: "If there's kids in there, we need to go in there."
Unknown Officer: "Whoever is in charge will determine that."

11:56:52 - PD Channel Recording: "Again it is critical for everybody to let PD take point on this."

11:58:12 - After an unknown officer asks where the shooter is, another unknown officer advises, "The school chief of police is in there with him."

11:58:24 - DPS SA says, "It sounds like a hostage rescue situation. Sounds like a (undercover) rescue, they should probably go in."

12:01:13 - DPS SA indicates he wants to go clear more rooms. An unknown Officer replies, "Don't you think we should have a supervisor approve that?" to which DPS SA replies,
"He's not my supervisor."

12:03:50 - 911 call from student inside the classroom begins

12:03:51 - SECOND ballistic shield enters the west door

12:04:16 - THIRD ballistic shield enters the west door

12:09:24 - Uvalde PD Officer: "Go around and get the master key to the rooms"

12:10:21 - Elements of BORTAC begin arriving at elementary school

12:11:00 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo requests master key

12:14:45 - Uvalde ID Chief Arredondo gives instructions to officers to have a sniper on the east roof

12:15:27 - BORTAC Member arrives in west building

12:16:24 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "I just need a key.

12:17:22 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "Tell them to ****ing wait. No one comes in."

12:20:46 - FOURTH ballistic shield enters west door

12:21:08 - Suspect gunfire (4 rounds)

12:21:30 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "Can you go get a breaching tool? Like for a trailer house?"

12:23:21 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "We've lost two kids. These walls are thin. If he starts shooting we're going to lose more kids. I hate to say we have to put those to the side right now."

12:24:00 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo attempts to communicate with the suspect in English and Spanish.

12:26:14 - Unknown officer. "There's a teacher shot in there," to which a Uvalde PD Officer replies, "I know."

12:27:08 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "People are going to ask why we're taking so long. We're trying to preserve the rest of the life."

12:27:29 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "Do we have a team ready to go? Do we have a team ready to go? Have at it."

12:28:21 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "There is a window over there obviously. The door is probably going to be locked. That is the nature of this place. l am going to get some more keys to test"

12:28:53 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "These master keys aren't working here, bro. We have master keys and they're not working.'

12:30:00 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "Okay. We've cleared out everything except for that room. We still have people down there just past the flag to the right. But, uh, we're ready to breach but that door is locked."

12:33:44 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "I say we breach through those windows and shoot his ****ing head off through the windows."

12:35:39 - Hooligan breaching tool enters west door

12:38:20 - Uvalde ID Chief Arredondo attempts to communicate with the suspect in English and Spanish.

12:41:58 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "Just so you understand, we think there are some injuries in there. And so you know what we did, we cleared off the rest of the building so we wouldn't have anymore besides what's already in there, obviously."

12:42:11 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "We're having a ****ing problem getting into the room because it is locked. He's got an AR-15 and he's shooting everywhere like crazy. So, he's stopped."

12:43:20 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "They gotta get that ****ing door open, bro. They can't get that door open. We need more keys or something."

12:46:18 - Uvalde ISD Chief Arredondo: "If ya'll are ready to do it, you do it but you should distract him out that window."

12:47:57 - Sledge Hammer enters from east hallway

12:50:03 - Breach and termination gunfire
Thank you for the info. Please send the link of the source so I can share it.

Doesn’t appear that the chief is overwhelmed trying to do everything himself ? Including trying the keys in the door himself ( if that information is still accurate). Does it appear that the chief is a coward or just overwhelmed?

Why so late with the decisions at 12:33 to breech through the windows ? What team was going to do it? Was anyone acting like a team other than Bortac rather than a bunch of individuals? Do you see the greater problem with the supervision??
 
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