Glock Talk banner
81 - 100 of 476 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Wut

Texas Department Public Safety spokesman Lt. Christopher Olivarez confirmed to a reporter during a live shot that police officers went into Robb Elementary School to get their own children during the massacre.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,409 Posts
Huh?

There was no SRO. This entire thread is based on a false premise.
Sgt. Erick Estrada of the Texas Department of Public Safety told CNN that when the shooter got to the school, he encountered a school resource officer, dropped a black bag with ammunition inside and entered the school.

Not discounting the potential for any news media source to get their facts wrong (or rushed), it seems the TDPS is under the impression there was a SRO involved at the scene. Hopefully, his agency vetted and conformed the information being released to the press. No guarantees, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,367 Posts
New info as reported on the non-cop forum

There might not have been an SRO



The suspect walked into the school and was not confronted by a school resource officer, Escalon said. He said media reports stating otherwise were inaccurate.

Once inside the building, the gunman walked into a hallway and then made his way into a classroom, Escalon said.

"Four minutes later, local police departments, Uvalde Police Department, the Independent School District Police Department are inside, making entry," he said. "They hear gunfire, they take rounds, they move back, get cover. And during that time, they approach where the suspect is at."
All of the information at the intial press conference might be wrong
Pretty sure the school district police officer is getting called "SRO" in the initial reports.

The question of when that officer got there, and what they did is still in flux.

But SRO or school district LEO, is a battle of semantics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
I think you are jumping to conclusions.
No

My info is up to date as of an hour ago

There was no LE presence on the campus and the door was unlocked and he walked in un contest.

He also engaged some folks at a funeral home after he crashed the car before he entered, but that did not initiate a lockdown.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,409 Posts
This is what happens when LE agencies, presumably with the best of intentions to be completely transparent, try to release information too quickly? The potential for initial info to be incomplete, or even incorrect, is often a very real possibility. Trouble can sometimes come when agencies wish to get ahead of horrific events in their efforts to be 'transparent" ... and more so when there may be 2 or more agencies involved. Damn, right?

An hour ago ...

Officials clarified the timeline of the shooting Thursday after giving varying accounts. They refused to answer many questions about the tactics.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,986 Posts
I think I would have to go with an active shooter, in a school, cannot become a hostage taker as he has exhibited his desire to kill kids.

He remains an active shooter that must be neutralized as soon as possible. Period. If at all possible.

As long as he is alive and functional, we can’t start treating victims. If he decides he wants to go back to killing his hostages, while you are attempting to contain him or negotiate with him, he can easily kill 2-3-10 more kids before you can react.

So. If I were still teaching active shooter, as I did for 15 years or so, you go in. You hunt him down and, you kill him. Or, you find him proned out begging for mercy.

The pursuit of him does not stop. Does not take a break.

In an hour, he could have boobie trapped the room. ( See Breslan). Even if your not hearing shots, he could be strangling them. Stabbing them.

Tough words in an era where cops are beaten to death with In Service talks about de escalation. Dealing with the mentally ill, and the looming charges when they have to kill a threat to children. I’m sure someone would still be upset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,367 Posts
No

My info is up to date as of an hour ago

There was no LE presence on the campus and the door was unlocked and he walked in un contest.

He also engaged some folks at a funeral home after he crashed the car before he entered, but that did not initiate a lockdown.
You said there was no SRO. Let me remind you of your post, from the last page.

Huh?

There was no SRO. This entire thread is based on a false premise.


That was an entire post, by you. Go check it from the last page. We will wait.

Now, you are saying that there was no LE presence on campus. Which is different than what you posted.

You are right, there was no LE presence on campus.

No one confronted the suspect when he entered the school.

However, 2 Uvalde police officers, and a Uvalde school police officer confronted the suspect after he was inside the school. I believe all 3 officers were injured as a result.

So there was an SRO in that initial response.

Who did what, when, is still in flux.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,207 Posts
"Local police received a call about "a crashed vehicle and an individual armed with a rifle making his way into the school," DPS Lt. Chris Olivarez tells "Fox & Friends."

OK updated story. Police were on the way but not in pursuit. At that moment, the SRO was on his/her own.

If only the SRO had a way to auto-lock down all classroom doors.
Now there’s an idea. Have a “panic button” they wear as a pendant that when pressed locks all the doors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,369 Posts
I just read a CNN article where they said the SRO didnt shoot. Anyone know for sure? Also, anyone know how he gained entry to the school since they supposedly had everything in place to prevent something like this.

He was a transsexual high school dropout with mental issues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,555 Posts
I think I would have to go with an active shooter, in a school, cannot become a hostage taker as he has exhibited his desire to kill kids.

He remains an active shooter that must be neutralized as soon as possible. Period. If at all possible.

As long as he is alive and functional, we can’t start treating victims. If he decides he wants to go back to killing his hostages, while you are attempting to contain him or negotiate with him, he can easily kill 2-3-10 more kids before you can react.

So. If I were still teaching active shooter, as I did for 15 years or so, you go in. You hunt him down and, you kill him. Or, you find him proned out begging for mercy.

The pursuit of him does not stop. Does not take a break.

In an hour, he could have boobie trapped the room. ( See Breslan). Even if your not hearing shots, he could be strangling them. Stabbing them.

Tough words in an era where cops are beaten to death with In Service talks about de escalation. Dealing with the mentally ill, and the looming charges when they have to kill a threat to children. I’m sure someone would still be upset.
Usually (damn, it sucks we can use that word, there’ve been so many of these) I agree. Generally, go to the bad noise and make it stop. Push the shooter until he surrenders or is killed. However, as in Beslan, if they do get dug in with all those dead man switches, a breach / assault might not be the right choice. Of course, that whole thing was just different on a whole other level.

Move to contact and engage the bad guy(s), unless it’s the wrong choice. Then do something else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,367 Posts
Now there’s an idea. Have a “panic button” they wear as a pendant that when pressed locks all the doors.
The problem is you need someone to be willing to push that button.

Maybe I missed it in the reports, but I haven't heard that the school was locked down.

The suspect took 16 minutes, allegedly, from crashing his truck, shooting several rounds, to entering the school.

An exterior door was unlocked, and he accessed an unlocked, occupied classroom.

How is it possible that a suspect is outside a school shooting off rounds and the school isn't on lockdown?

Surely they could hear the gunfire.

Was the suspect shooting at 2 people, who were across the street not reported to 9-1-1?

If 9-1-1 took calls of shots fired near a school that is in session, did 9-1-1 call the school to inform them of the shots?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,409 Posts
Now there’s an idea. Have a “panic button” they wear as a pendant that when pressed locks all the doors.
:ROFLMAO: That practice might not last a week, if it even lasted a couple of days.

Having teachers and other staff wearing 'panic buttons' that automatically locked all doors would probably generate a continual series of unintentional lock activations. If not for how they were worn, handled and touched, then the inevitable issues resulting in false activations due to system issues (due to equipment and lowest bidder vendor). At some point (and probably not very long) the staff would probably end up deciding to leave the panic buttons in desks, hanging on a nail, etc.

Then, there's the issue of initial cost and maintenance. Maybe if they linked the expensive electric lock system to cellphones, since most teachers and staff might carry them? Then, of course, there would still be the 'butt lock' to deal with ... :p

Nice idea, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: warbow150

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,409 Posts
... However, as in Beslan, if they do get dug in with all those dead man switches, a breach / assault might not be the right choice. Of course, that whole thing was just different on a whole other level.

Move to contact and engage the bad guy(s), unless it’s the wrong choice. Then do something else.
You win the understatement prize for the day. :)
 

·
Pretty Ladies!
Joined
·
4,987 Posts
Somebody or some set of circumstances intervened very early on to get Ramos to barricade himself in that one classroom instead of roaming the building, killing people at random all through the school.

I know I said I was out, but a theory:

1. School admin initiated the lockdown internally in response to reports of Grandmother's shooting/ vehicle crash/ shots fired at nearby funeral home.

2. Most teachers complied and had locked their doors. 4th grade teacher failed, for whatever reason, to lock hers.

3. Backdoor was left unlocked, possibly due to parents coming and going from an awards ceremony earlier that morning. Ramos entered unchallenged.

4. Some combination of officers arrived just as Ramos was entering the school. Ramos tries to enter classrooms to escape them. There's a gun fight in the hall before Ramos enters the 4th grade classroom with the unlocked door.

5. At that point most of the massacre occurs. Ramos then barricades himself and the transformation from "active shooter" to "hostage taker" is complete.

6. The failure to secure the backdoor was the first critical failure. That's on the school personnel if there wasn't an SRO on property at the moment the attack started. If that door was locked, Ramos would have still been outside when officers arrived and more easily killed or captured with less danger to students.

7. The failure to lock the classroom door was the second critical failure. That's on the teacher. If that door was locked, Ramos would have been trapped in the halls and more easily killed or captured by responding officers following commonly accepted active shooter response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,207 Posts
Somebody or some set of circumstances intervened very early on to get Ramos to barricade himself in that one classroom instead of roaming the building, killing people at random all through the school.

I know I said I was out, but a theory:

1. School admin initiated the lockdown internally in response to reports of Grandmother's shooting/ vehicle crash/ shots fired at nearby funeral home.

2. Most teachers complied and had locked their doors. 4th grade teacher failed, for whatever reason, to lock hers.

3. Backdoor was left unlocked, possibly due to parents coming and going from an awards ceremony earlier that morning. Ramos entered unchallenged.

4. Some combination of officers arrived just as Ramos was entering the school. Ramos tries to enter classrooms to escape them. There's a gun fight in the hall before Ramos enters the 4th grade classroom with the unlocked door.

5. At that point most of the massacre occurs. Ramos then barricades himself and the transformation from "active shooter" to "hostage taker" is complete.

6. The failure to secure the backdoor was the first critical failure. That's on the school personnel if there wasn't an SRO on property at the moment the attack started. If that door was locked, Ramos would have still been outside when officers arrived and more easily killed or captured with less danger to students.

7. The failure to lock the classroom door was the second critical failure. That's on the teacher. If that door was locked, Ramos would have been trapped in the halls and more easily killed or captured by responding officers following commonly accepted active shooter response.
No? The SRO.
 
81 - 100 of 476 Posts
Top