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An SRO engaged the school shooter in TX

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There was an SRO in the elementary school in the school shooting in TX. He was shot by the gunman defending the school.
Imagine how many more would be dead if a good guy with a gun wasn’t there.

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Discussion Starter · #357 ·
I’ll preface this saying I have been on dozens of high risk search warrants in my career either as a door kicker or incident commander. Many of them were fortified narcotics locations. It has never taken us 40 minutes to enter any location. Granted, many times, I had the SWAT Team or a breaching kit with me, but there have been many times when it was just patrol guys. As far as lock picks go, we used lock picks exactly zero times. However, where there is a will, there is a way. Police officers are resourceful, and if they need to get into a location, pretty much they can. Doors are for amateurs. We’ve gone as far as knocking out entire walls. But regardless, if they really needed to get in, they could have. I suspect, but don’t know because I wasn’t there, that the decision not to make entry was a tactical one and not because they couldn’t. We’re not talking about a bank vault here.
Yep. After awhile, it was a tactical decision.
People keep calling these cops cowards and such. But these guys just chased a man with a rifle that would penetrate the vest they had on, shot it out with him in the hallway. Not an act of cowardness. Maybe they didn’t make the right decisions but it’s not cowardness in the truest sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #359 ·
I read an article which I have no way of finding now that said BorTac attempted a breach and failed which prompted the search for the key. So even a tactical team who I assume had some sort of breaching equipment struck out.

As we know, outward opening fire rated doors on a metal frame are the toughest thing out there to get in.
If that happened and the SWAT team couldn’t enter without the key, normal patrol guys can’t be expected to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #362 ·
Did anyone read the recent press report from the Gov who says he was misinformed about the SRO engagement? That the SRO couldn't be accounted for and may not have been on-premises??

Likely would have eliminated the need for 358 unnecessary and speculative posts. Unfortunately this thread was started without confirmation of facts, just like what the MSM does
It’s a department of 4, one detective and the chief. I bet you there was no SRO assigned that day , was reassigned, or just legitimately on his lunch break
 

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Discussion Starter · #370 ·
If the online list I saw of the UCISD is correct and up-to-date, does that mean the school district police serve 9 school campuses? If they have to spread 4 SRO's to cover that many school grounds, perhaps they rely upon dispatching a SRO when a call comes in? Otherwise it's luck of the draw whether one is present, or assigned (HS?)?
I doubt it’s luck of the draw. You assign them to the problem school(s). You might even assign two of them to the high school and the others to the middle schools . It’s where the majority of the issues will be. You put the resources where they are most “ needed” most often.
Gun play in the high or middle school is much more likely than an active shooter in an elementary school.
 

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Discussion Starter · #380 ·
We are testing breaching rounds on them now I'm thinking two or three into the lock should do it or a small strip charge at the knob to blow the latch


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It’s not rocket science in a lot of ways. A few breeching rounds in a spare ammo case for a shotgun might be a good idea. A strip charge? Most patrol guys shouldn’t carry it. Too much that could go wrong . That’s a SWAT thing
 

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Discussion Starter · #381 ·
Anyone remember WACO that was all about dynamic entry they toasted and shot them and rolled over in tanks tear gas lead and flame.no matter what is put in print. They failed to get that Texas job done. They can talk about it for decades they will.....SOME MEMBERS HERE probably kids when this happened over 25 years ago.two incidents children died,one bad guy,and a number of good guys on another doing bad. View attachment 1072958
WACO is so different than what we are talking about.
WACO there was no surprise. The branch dividians were warned what was about to happen and trained against such actions. It was an ambush. Those agents did not have the advantage of numbers either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #389 ·
Now the Uvalde police and school district police are reportedly no longer cooperating with the Texas probe into the incident...

That seems pretty unusual to say the least...

Randy

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It appears to be that the “ school chief” isn’t cooperating. The individual officers may be still cooperating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #390 ·
That didn’t take long. Prosecutors tend to be anti cop too. It’s a job that take so they can check that box for higher positions later. She seems like one of those.
I might add it’s not the police department that is not cooperating. It’s the chief of the SCHOOL police not cooperating. It’s a different department
 

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Discussion Starter · #392 ·
According to the article, the amount of active shooter training is less than what Alerrt gives.

“In December 2021, just months ago, Arredondo completed an eight-hour school-based law enforcement training on active shooter situations at Southwest Texas Junior College, according to records reported by CBS News. “
And
“Arredondo completed the same course on August 25, 2020 and 16 hours of a 'Terrorism Response Tactics - Active Shooter' course on June 10, 2019, the records show. “
Unless that school based training and that terrorism response tactics- active shooter covered multi-agency response, the school chief’s status as IC should have been taken over by someone who was. The basic active shooter tactics training is focused on the team that goes in. The strategic decisions such as multiple teams, staging areas, and tac coordination are not focused on the basic active shooter course— basically the IC’s job.

Basic active shooter course description
It’s a 16 hour course

This is the course that trains the incident commander, tac coordinator, staging area manager, etc—it’s a 3 day course. By the course hours, it doesn’t look like the school chief had it .

Both are great courses. Alerrt also has a breeching course for first responders that uses shotguns. I haven’t taken that one but I’m sure more cops will now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #393 ·
Further investigation of the quality of his training. Here is that school based active training
It seems to talk about in the training when an active shooter can turn into a barricaded hostage situation and a barricaded perp situation but doesn’t role play it. It also doesn’t give any time to the management of the situation beyond escorting EMS or applying first aid themselves. And none of the role play had barriers like locked doors involved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #397 ·
Training’s one thing. Experience is something else altogether. A couple courses is often better than nothing, but it’s a poor substitute for having been there, done that. No matter how realistic we try to make it, it’s not the same as operational IC experience.

In point of fact, if the limited training a person has causes them to think they are now good to go in a role for which they are in reality unsuited because of inexperience, then the training has essentially had the opposite effect of what it intended. Especially if that person is suddenly thrown into, or by their own choice jumps into the deep end with a mess like this one. Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous if it causes us to overestimate our abilities.

Please note, I’m not necessarily saying that’s what happened here. I don’t know what the Chief’s operational experience is. Maybe he has a great deal of it, maybe he has little. He was in a tough situation either way.
Exactly. And even if he had experience from 15 years ago, does he still have the mind set or rather that “ edge”.
Active guys know this feeling I am talking about. Go on vacation , a inside assignment, or hospitalization for any extended time, it takes time ( from a few hours to a couple of weeks) to get that edge back. Now imagine years of being out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #400 ·
What you're asking touches on why indemnification is so important in police work. Without indemnification, all the LEOs there can (and probably will) be sued civilly as individuals. OTOH, if they had kicked the doors outwards immediately, and some kid(s) got shot, the LEOs can also (and you know they will) be sued civilly as individuals.
By the standards the latest lawsuit that gun manufacturers filed in New York seems to have, the parents can sue the outer door lock manufacturer, the classroom door manufacturer for not automatically locking before the criminal entered and not automatically opening for the police .

But more to your point, the individual officers who obeyed orders can be sued, the chief can be sued and the BorTac team too ( for not going in earlier).
And from the curriculum of the training that school chief got, he could have been trained to see it as a hostage situation because the shooting stopped. The children still in danger standard that the media has dubbed is BS. If it’s a hostage situation, they are still in danger. The question is why did the shooting of the children stop. The chief got it wrong. The shooter stopped, not to use the children as hostages, but because he didn’t know the killer thought he ran out of victims .
The report that a police officer called out and asked if anyone inside needed help and got shot for it was probably the killer pretending to be the police . ( Numerous active shooters have done this tactic). Even so, that gunshot should have initiated a breech by LE even if it was a hostage situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #406 ·
At any given time during the day we have 5-7 SWAT guys working that can carry and deploy small strip charges. Actually the explosive weight of the charge is minimal and would be much safer/ more efficient than a breaching round
But that is a SWAT thing. It’s not about the weight. It’s the safety of carrying the explosives everyday in a patrol vehicle that may be left unattended in all sorts of conditions.
it’s about the extra training it takes to properly use it. Thats why it’s a SWAT job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #408 ·

I got it. Sorta. Maybe you can’t breach the door. Can’t get a gun in the room.

But, evacuating the rest of the school would be something.

If moms inside and, shots are being fired. It’s not “just” a barricaded suspect. If she arrived after all the snipers were in position, it’s way after the initial attack.
Please watch this for some of those answers
 

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Discussion Starter · #409 ·
If you guys didn’t have the time to watch the video. The woman did not go in and get her kids from the same building as the gunman

The off duty cop who borrowed a shotgun did not do the door entry. He helped the other cops evac the other classrooms through the windows etc.
The cops were not just standing around doing nothing .
 

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Discussion Starter · #417 ·
arent they saying now that the doors to the clasroom werent locked... ???
Yep. But the majority of the responding officers didn’t know that. They were told they were locked and had no reason to believe they weren’t.
DPS testified that it’s their standard protocol to defer to the local jurisdiction but the school cop was actively involved with the gunman. By ALERRT training standards, he is then no longer in charge as a result. The next supervisor would be unrelieved.
That was a major screw up by DPS and Uvalde police. The guy who runs a department with only 5 people and the basic TCOLE active shooter training was left “ in charge” without the ability( and perhaps without the training) to supervise such an event. He didn’t have a radio to coordinate any response. They failed to take over the incident commander spot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #429 ·
Yup, can start with failure to provide basic maintenance of doors..... then ISD/PD knew radios did not work in building, but did not upgrade to better radios like BP had that worked... then ISD/PD did not have keys on their officers... You can go on forever with issues administrators failed to address before the actual shooting.
Hell, yeah. The radios didn’t work in the freaking school. Forget active shooter. How about daily needs like calling for an ambulance or an officer screaming for backup. That’s why that school chief brought his cell phone instead of a radio.
A simple repeater in the school might have solved the problem
 

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Discussion Starter · #430 ·
What is ****ing inexcusable is she knew he was coming to help and he was stopped by his peers and they didn't help him rescue her and the other kids, none of them are fit to wear a badge,,,NONE
No, the majority had every reason to believe the door was locked. They got that based on the first officers at the scene. Even the DPS officers saw how many officers were in the hallway and left. The Border Patrol SWAT team thought the door was locked too.
 
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