Glock Talk banner
61 - 80 of 476 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,840 Posts
Timeline now on Fox.

Perp wrecked at 11:28. Cops called. Because he shot at funeral home witnesses.

One hour fro SWAT to get there.

11:44 Shooter eneters school shooting before he entered. Nobody encountered him before he entered. Door unlocked. Local cops take fire and move back/call SWAT.

An hour later backup/SWAT shows up at 12:45. Kills perp.

No officer at school in beginning.

Possibly killing kids occurred in first few minutes.

Different from previous reports.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
@OLY-M4gery

Not if you're no longer actively shooting. Then you're a hostage taker. At least that's how we looked at it. Continued dynamic response by the lesser trained first- responding patrol teams was judged more likely to result in additional civilian casualties than slowing down, containing the subject, and going the negotiator/ SWAT route to end the scenario.

As for what to do when the active shooter who became a non- shooting hostage taker starts shooting hostages, well, everything just really starts to suck, don't it?

I think you have to consider the hostages in the room with barricaded subject as "already dead" as long as there are other innocent subjects still in danger, in adjacent rooms, for example. Interior drywall ain't stopping bullets. So, until the 3rd graders and the 5th graders in the rooms on either side of the 4th graders are secured, you don't move on the 4th grade classroom. And when you do, you're moving on your timetable with the best team and the best equipment. Sucks, but that's my take on it.

At the end of the day all of these things are an exercise in picking your poison, choosing the lesser of many evils, and trying to engineer the least horrible of many potentially horrible outcomes.
I appreciate the candid answer. You’ve given me some pause for thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,404 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,653 Posts
I appreciate the candid answer. You’ve given me some pause for thought.
...
The reality is there are no one size fits all solutions. Sometimes it's just seeing how much bread you can get with your **** sandwich.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dukeboy01

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,840 Posts
Sounds like no SRO "engaged" the shooter upon entering. He just walked in and started killing.

Shooter was in classroom for an hour before he was killed.

That's what I'm hearing initially today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,404 Posts
A couple interesting comments made to the press ...

“We have an active shooter situation, we’re trying to preserve any further loss of life, and as much as they want to go into that school, we cannot have individuals go into that school, especially if they’re not armed.”
Olivarez also said they were still gathering the exact details of the initial confrontation between the shooter and a school resource officer. Olivarez said the initial report he had received was that gunfire was exchanged between the two, but that information had yet to be corroborated.
No comment to the first statement, but I found it an interesting thing to say.

The second comment? I'm surprised no reported asked whether the weapon carried by the SRO was taken into evidence, and if a preliminary inspection revealed whether or not it had been fired? (Remaining round count, if nothing else.)

Perhaps the security video being obtained by the FBI will reveal more, when it's released (or at least discussed).

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,818 Posts
Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Sounds like no SRO "engaged" the shooter upon entering. He just walked in and started killing.

Shooter was in classroom for an hour before he was killed.

That's what I'm hearing initially today.

“At a back door on the west side of the school building, Ramos was confronted by a school resource officer — though McCraw said “gunfire was not exchanged”

But then:

“Somehow, Ramos was able to get inside the school as the officer “followed him in immediately” and then gunfire was exchanged, McCraw said”

The SRO did exchange gunfire with him inside the school and then he got into a classroom. The gunman locked the door, and shot up the room. The SRO was hit by gunfire in their exchange.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,367 Posts

“At a back door on the west side of the school building, Ramos was confronted by a school resource officer — though McCraw said “gunfire was not exchanged”

But then:

“Somehow, Ramos was able to get inside the school as the officer “followed him in immediately” and then gunfire was exchanged, McCraw said”

The SRO did exchange gunfire with him inside the school and then he got into a classroom. The gunman locked the door, and shot up the room. The SRO was hit by gunfire in their exchange.
I think you are assuming.

Per Texas DPS, 2 Uvalde police officers arrived at the same time as the SRO. The Uvalde officers exchanged gunfire with the suspect in the school.

CNN
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,653 Posts
I think you are assuming.

Per Texas DPS, 2 Uvalde police officers arrived at the same time as the SRO. The Uvalde officers exchanged gunfire with the suspect in the school.

CNN
This is exactly why I'm not injecting my opinion. We are being fed too much contradictory information right now. This really needs an unbiased investigation before we know what took place.
 

·
Pretty Ladies!
Joined
·
4,987 Posts
Yeah, I'm out too. There is a crazy amount of contradictory information about this situation. Even more than usual.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,367 Posts
This is exactly why I'm not injecting my opinion. We are being fed too much contradictory information right now. This really needs an unbiased investigation before we know what took place.
Yeah. I have the feeling by the time this ends up analyzed, it will not look like a good response.

Supposedly the suspect crashed his truck. Then shot at 2 people outside a funeral home across the street from the school. Then shot at the school.

It's allegedly 16 minutes from the crash until the suspect gets into the school. Which seems like a long time, especially if the suspect is shooting after the crash.

But just yesterday, I was reading about a Sheriff's Office getting lambasted for having "military armaments" in CA.

They had an MRAP, 5 HMMV's, 40 mm grenade launchers, M4 carbines, and MP-5's. Not to mention 11 commercial drones. The comments were full of people decrying the militarization of police, and wondering why police would need such weapons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,404 Posts
...

But just yesterday, I was reading about a Sheriff's Office getting lambasted for having "military armaments" in CA.

They had an MRAP, 5 HMMV's, 40 mm grenade launchers, M4 carbines, and MP-5's. Not to mention 11 commercial drones. The comments were full of people decrying the militarization of police, and wondering why police would need such weapons.
Always an unwinnable coin toss.

Why do you have them?!?

Or ...

Why don't you have them?!? (When I need you to have them. :eek:)

The old "Heads I win/Tails you lose" when we're not the ones flipping the coin. ;)

Blame-storming is always going to be used to protect the responsible? o_O

Dunno. Don't pretend to know.

It's always the People in the Know who are never wrong, but seldom right, who seem to peddle the answers, huh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: GPalmer

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,840 Posts
Not every report is saying there was a SRO present. Like just now on Fox News.

I'm not allowed to quote posts on the cop subforum. So,I'll post elsewhere. My apologies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,818 Posts
Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Not every report is saying there was a SRO present. Like just now on Fox News.

I'm not allowed to quote posts on the cop subforum. So,I'll post elsewhere. My apologies.
You could be right. The initial press conferences could be wrong
“The suspect walked into the school and was not confronted by a school resource officer, Escalon said. He said media reports stating otherwise were inaccurate.”
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,367 Posts
Todays presser said otherwise. There was no LE presence of any title on campus when he entered and started shooting.
I think you are jumping to conclusions.

Uvalde schools have a 4 person police department.

The current timeline, subject to change, indicates a Uvalde schools police officer, called an SRO in reports, and 2 Uvalde police officers arrived on scene. They were met with gunfire from the suspect. I believe all 3 were injured. They retreated, and requested "additional resources".

So there was an SRO, b ut the timing of when the suspect was confronted is still in flux.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,818 Posts
Discussion Starter · #79 ·
New info as reported on the non-cop forum

There might not have been an SRO



The suspect walked into the school and was not confronted by a school resource officer, Escalon said. He said media reports stating otherwise were inaccurate.

Once inside the building, the gunman walked into a hallway and then made his way into a classroom, Escalon said.

"Four minutes later, local police departments, Uvalde Police Department, the Independent School District Police Department are inside, making entry," he said. "They hear gunfire, they take rounds, they move back, get cover. And during that time, they approach where the suspect is at."
All of the information at the intial press conference might be wrong
 
61 - 80 of 476 Posts
Top