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SAR said:
This right here just shows me how difficult it is to make these kinds of split second decisions and although the prevailing sentiment is that the Chief made a monumental tactical error, I feel for him and can see how agonizing his decision must have been.
No split second decision needed to be made.

Just follow the process as outlined by every training organization in the country based on decades of experience.

Since kids are either not killed yet or bleeding out and in need of urgent medical care, there is no time to stop the fight.

Thor Eells, executive director of the National Tactical Officers Association (NTAO), said "If you're in a classroom with innocent victims and I know that shots have been fired, I need to engage you. Even if you stopped firing, I'm going to make entry into the room so we can begin to administer life-saving aid to any potential victims," Eells said.

The delayed police response in Uvalde runs contrary to well-established, commonly taught active shooter protocol established after the Columbine school shooting of 1999, Eells said
 

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You make it sound so easy. What’s your experience level?
For sake of argument assume I have zero experience.

Now given that, I cannot find a single professional Active Shooter Training school that says they handled it correctly, can you cite one?

You see it is not about me, it is about all your fellow door kickers who said he phucked up.
 

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SAR said:
So you’re talking all classroom theory
No I am quoting professional "Been There, Done That Folks"

Tell me where Thor Eells is wrong:

Thor Eells, executive director of the National Tactical Officers Association (NTAO), said "If you're in a classroom with innocent victims and I know that shots have been fired, I need to engage you. Even if you stopped firing, I'm going to make entry into the room so we can begin to administer life-saving aid to any potential victims," Eells said.

Tell me were Director McCraw (20 years FBI/20 years DPS Director) is wrong?

Tell me where Paul Howe (20 years SOCOM) is wrong?

Tell me where Gilliam, Pike, ALERRT, O'Neill, and dozens of other door kickers or trainers are wrong?

Name ONE recognized expert who thinks it was handled correctly. Just One.
 

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Aren't you the guy that wanted the SWAT team?
No I asked if any members responded and if so why they did not enter or lead the charge since they should know school layout better than BORTAC.

We really need answers as to what happened in that hallway, I sure as hell hope it does not come down to interagency rivalry or some other bs.
 

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SAR said:
You and I are not on the same page.
Fair enough. I am just saying I cannot find any expert who says stopping assault was right move. Even if shooting stopped, it is urgent to get into help injured.
 

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We are still not on the same page. You are still trying to argue theory and I am still talking about critical decision making under stress. You still haven’t actually given us any data points on your level of experience so I am guessing none.
I am not arguing.

I am quoting what professionals have said. Asking if there are alternative views, which none have been provided.
 

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No one here is saying stopping the assault was the right move. It’s just easier said than done. The initial cops stopped pushing forward…why? Was it a locked door they could not open? We dont know yet.
I am referring to the reports the IC halted the entry, not the initial team.

The on-scene commander, who is also the Uvalde school district police chief, "believed that it had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject," McCraw said. "It was the wrong decision. Period. There's no excuse for that," McCraw said of the supervisor's call not to confront the shooter
 

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SAR said:
There is no alternative view.
Exactly. He phucked up.

SAR said:
You seem to know everything,
If I did, I would not need to quote others and ask for others opinions. If I ever have a question on "how critical decisions are made", you will be my goto person. thx.

For now, I just would like to see a timeline of what happened in the hallway and by who.
 

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SAR likely has more training and experience as a cop than most of the folks posting in here.
Yes and me the least. But I do have experience rescuing injured folks, and time is of the essence. So I was surprised the IC stood down while kids were still bleeding, a point made by the NTOA guy.
 

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It's so obvious someone must have checked, right? No need to ask, it would be assumed.

Wonder what happened with the story of the janitor unlocking the door, did he discover it was unlocked when he tried his key?
Prety much all the stories we were told were BS. Video inside school contradicted Arredondo comments. It showed shooter go in an out door 3 times. It showed no LEO tried door. DPS showed door was mechanically broken, not that it was left "unlocked".

I would have a hard time living with that if I found out later nothing was stopping me from going in except a faulty assumption on my part.
I imagine the ISD cop whose wife called him for help and he showed up and never tried to get into the room to save his wife who later died enroute to hospital is having a hard time also.
 

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That was a major screw up by DPS and Uvalde police. The guy who runs a department with only 5 people and the basic TCOLE active shooter training was left “ in charge” without the ability( and perhaps without the training) to supervise such an event. He didn’t have a radio to coordinate any response. They failed to take over the incident commander spot.
Wrong read.

The screwup is the initial responding officers did not press the fight. There never should have been anyone "in-charge". They did another Columbine. Initial responding officers encountered some gun fire, then set up a perimeter and did nothing for an hour. Officers responding after that just took up more perimeter positions, so it was domino fail.

Had they pressed the fight, it would have been over in minutes, since door was unlocked.
 

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This was screwed up on so many levels , you need to get the transcript of the Texas DPS investigation and go through it Officers on scene in 3:00 minutes so many screw ups between on scene officers, dispatch and the chief. The communication was abysmal I will need a month to go through all this garbage.
Yup, can start with failure to provide basic maintenance of doors..... then ISD/PD knew radios did not work in building, but did not upgrade to better radios like BP had that worked... then ISD/PD did not have keys on their officers... You can go on forever with issues administrators failed to address before the actual shooting.
 
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