Glock Talk banner
21 - 40 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
"I get why he made the tactical decision that he did"

Would love for him to take questions on what evidence he was given to make that conclusion. Clearly nobody was providing him the 911 call info from the kids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
walkingfu61 said:
They don’t appear to be the lead guys on scene.
They were in fact, the lead on the scene. It was their Chief Pete Arredondo who was the on-site incident commander McCraw referenced as having made the bad decisions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
wfaa.com is where I saw it live on TV, then on NBC Special Report on live TV, not on the internet so you will have to search those sites.

Probably gonna be replayed on World News tonight also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
"Pushing through a fatal funnel that the shooter is already shooting at seems like a losing proposition."

The room layout I posted earlier shows the 2 rooms each with a door and connected. Shooter might not have been able to cover both classroom doors at same time. A distraction may have worked. This is where the ISD/PD should have had expertise and trained for this type of entry.

Either way it is reported he was hiding in a closet when BORTAC entered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
“OLY-M4gery” said:
I think you could cover both doors to the hallway from the door between the 2 classrooms.

The ISD is a 4 officer department.
The PD had. SWAT team. This should have been a scenario they trained for
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
dukeboy01 said:
I can't fault him for switching gears from active shooter to barricaded subject after the initial gunfire stopped.
So like the ISD Chief, you do not think a classroom full of kids who were just shot, are NOT in need of urgent medical care?

Never mind all the 911 calls where the kids were saying we are still alive send help.

It is mind boggling to me anyone could not think getting EMS to those kids was not urgent. This mentality killed people at Orlando/Pulse too and we still have not learned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
OLY-M4gery said:
Was it a full time on duty SWAT?

Because it looks like 12 officers from the picture on a part time team.

That means they had other full-time roles at the department.

Not to mention there are generally 3 shifts, and they get days off.

So 12 divided by 3 shifts, plus days off mean probably 2-3 might be on duty at any given time.

So the other 9-10 aren't on duty. So all of them would have to be called in from of duty. How long does it take you to get to work if your boss calls and says "get in here, NOW".

Having a SWAT team, and having a SWAT team IMMEDIATELY available are two very different things.

Plus, it seems like the Incident Commander delayed breaching the classroom, waiting for a tactical team. I think that SWAT team was who he was waiting for.

Waiting is the wrong call.
Part or Full time should not matter. They should have coverage worked out, otherwise the SWAT team is window dressing. SWAT callouts almost never get advance notice of an event. If VFDs can figure it out, so can they.

100s of LE from dozens of jurisdictions showed. The BP who killed him was off-duty. The BP who evac'ed kids was off-duty in a barber shop and jumped up and showed up. They made it there in minutes, did the local SWAT?

If they did, did the ISD Chief tell them to stand down?

I aint the only one asking:

Where Was Uvalde P.D.’s SWAT Team? | KLIF-AM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
OLY-M4gery said:
They needed an IMMEDIATE response.
Thank you Captain Obvious for telling us they needed immediate response. If only you could go back in time and tell that to Pete Arredendo.

OLY-M4gery said:
Having a SWAT team that has to be activated, geared up, briefed, deployed, isn't immediate.
SWAT team does not have to be "activated, geared up, briefed, deployed". Members show up just like everyone else and do what needs to be done. The different is they should be more familiar with layout and have better training than some others. They literally trained for this 2 months ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
warbow150 said:
Speculation can of course be dangerous, but this is sounding more and more like a doctrine / training issue also contributed.
Seems to me like a single person failed majorly. Almost every other responder was excellent.

warbow150 said:
A). The order not to breach and assault made sense and was obeyed by those on scene.
It was a literally a violation of their own policy. They stopped before shooter was isolated, distracted, or neutralized.

Font Screenshot Number Parallel


The stoppage also violates the Priority of Life policy.

Font Terrestrial plant Screenshot Rectangle Number
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
walkinguf61 said:
It depends on when this “ chief” arrived and made the decision. It’s really those cops in that hallway who made the first decision not to press forward.
Amen We have seen the story change a lot in last days.

What happened in that hallway is gonna be ugly. At some time they had ability to get through those doors. Everything indicates it was a lot sooner then when they actually went in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
warbow150 said:
Understand, I’m not making a value judgment here, but the shooter was definitely isolated, and almost certainly distracted by the presence of officers outside the door. He was not neutralized.
Everything I have read says he was still in room with live kids he had not yet killed. I would not call that isolated, maybe he was temporarily distracted, but certainly not neutralized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Yes, and they were metal doors too, so not easy. If only they'd been locked when the shooter reached them..
ISD had a locked classroom door policy.

It sucks how many little things could have prevented or reduced the count.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
warbow150 said:
Understand, I’m not making a value judgment here, but the shooter was definitely isolated, and almost certainly distracted by the presence of officers outside the door. He was not neutralized.
The context of all three of those means not in a position to continue to kill children.

YMMV.

I also notice a lack of policy about the urgency of providing EMS support to possible survivors which is where I am going with Priority of Life. Surprising since this was an issue at Orlando/Pulse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Agreed we do not know much about what happened in that hallway and how the decision making went.

DPS/McCraw opened the **** show when saying it was wrong decision without explaining the full decision process and options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Thor Eells, executive director of the National Tactical Officers Association (NTAO), said the commander's determination was "100% flawed." A barricade calls for officers to slow down their response, analyze whether the subject is alone and negotiate, he said.

"If you're in a classroom with innocent victims and I know that shots have been fired, I need to engage you. Even if you stopped firing, I'm going to make entry into the room so we can begin to administer life-saving aid to any potential victims," Eells said.

The delayed police response in Uvalde runs contrary to well-established, commonly taught active shooter protocol established after the Columbine school shooting of 1999, Eells said.
 
21 - 40 of 58 Posts
Top