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Florist
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The report that a police officer called out and asked if anyone inside needed help and got shot for it was probably the killer pretending to be the police . ( Numerous active shooters have done this tactic). Even so, that gunshot should have initiated a breech by LE even if it was a hostage situation.
We're talking about if LE lost their indemnity as currently being considered by the Brandon administration. So if the breach resulted in a child(ren) shot and killed or seriously injured, the LEOs would be second guessed and very, very likely be sued civilly. And they would be open to personal liability since they no longer have indemnity.

BTW, I no longer trust any defense that the LEOs were acting as per their department's policy/training practices. Any slightest deviation from policy or textbook training practices would be enough for a lawsuit and potential guilty verdict. What if you had 3 agencies and each had different policies/practices? Have 3 separate civil trials?
 
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Pretty Ladies!
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@packsaddle
This is Coptalk. We're trying to have a serious discussion. The Furball Forum is available for nonsense.
 

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Semper Paratus
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It’s not rocket science in a lot of ways. A few breeching rounds in a spare ammo case for a shotgun might be a good idea. A strip charge? Most patrol guys shouldn’t carry it. Too much that could go wrong . That’s a SWAT thing
At any given time during the day we have 5-7 SWAT guys working that can carry and deploy small strip charges. Actually the explosive weight of the charge is minimal and would be much safer/ more efficient than a breaching round
 

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Discussion Starter · #406 ·
At any given time during the day we have 5-7 SWAT guys working that can carry and deploy small strip charges. Actually the explosive weight of the charge is minimal and would be much safer/ more efficient than a breaching round
But that is a SWAT thing. It’s not about the weight. It’s the safety of carrying the explosives everyday in a patrol vehicle that may be left unattended in all sorts of conditions.
it’s about the extra training it takes to properly use it. Thats why it’s a SWAT job.
 

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I got it. Sorta. Maybe you can’t breach the door. Can’t get a gun in the room.

But, evacuating the rest of the school would be something.

If moms inside and, shots are being fired. It’s not “just” a barricaded suspect. If she arrived after all the snipers were in position, it’s way after the initial attack.
 

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Discussion Starter · #408 ·

I got it. Sorta. Maybe you can’t breach the door. Can’t get a gun in the room.

But, evacuating the rest of the school would be something.

If moms inside and, shots are being fired. It’s not “just” a barricaded suspect. If she arrived after all the snipers were in position, it’s way after the initial attack.
Please watch this for some of those answers
 

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Discussion Starter · #409 ·
If you guys didn’t have the time to watch the video. The woman did not go in and get her kids from the same building as the gunman

The off duty cop who borrowed a shotgun did not do the door entry. He helped the other cops evac the other classrooms through the windows etc.
The cops were not just standing around doing nothing .
 

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If you guys didn’t have the time to watch the video. The woman did not go in and get her kids from the same building as the gunman

The off duty cop who borrowed a shotgun did not do the door entry. He helped the other cops evac the other classrooms through the windows etc.
The cops were not just standing around doing nothing .
And regardless, someone still has to be at the tape providing scene security.
 

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And regardless, someone still has to be at the tape providing scene security.
I'm pretty convinced that she was dealing with the Marshalls providing the perimeter security. Her perception of them standing around, is, well, them doing their job and preventing an even bigger cluster****. Her mention of her second son being away from the sound of shots by her first son's classroom suggest she was in multiple buildings.
 

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One of the downsides of being so "transparent" is putting out bad information trying to get info out fast.

The shifting stories add fuel to the fire of people pushing negative narratives about police. Not sure how you're supposed to know where that line is though, none of the info coming in is going to be vetted until investigations are well underway. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Randy

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Discussion Starter · #417 ·
arent they saying now that the doors to the clasroom werent locked... ???
Yep. But the majority of the responding officers didn’t know that. They were told they were locked and had no reason to believe they weren’t.
DPS testified that it’s their standard protocol to defer to the local jurisdiction but the school cop was actively involved with the gunman. By ALERRT training standards, he is then no longer in charge as a result. The next supervisor would be unrelieved.
That was a major screw up by DPS and Uvalde police. The guy who runs a department with only 5 people and the basic TCOLE active shooter training was left “ in charge” without the ability( and perhaps without the training) to supervise such an event. He didn’t have a radio to coordinate any response. They failed to take over the incident commander spot.
 

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Yes.

They are now saying they had officers with rifles and shields on scene at the classroom within a few minutes and the door wasnt locked.
My motto is "Trust in Jesus, but try the brakes anyway".

Sounds completely messed up, but in a chaotic situation like that I can see it's easy to assume at least one of the other guys must have tried the door to make sure it was locked if I arrive and see a bunch of guys standing outside.

It's so obvious someone must have checked, right? No need to ask, it would be assumed.

Wonder what happened with the story of the janitor unlocking the door, did he discover it was unlocked when he tried his key?

If anyone in the group knew that, I can see them being hesitant to point that out, but most on scene probably assumed the janitor really did unlock the door.

I would have a hard time living with that if I found out later nothing was stopping me from going in except a faulty assumption on my part.

Randy

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It's so obvious someone must have checked, right? No need to ask, it would be assumed.

Wonder what happened with the story of the janitor unlocking the door, did he discover it was unlocked when he tried his key?
Prety much all the stories we were told were BS. Video inside school contradicted Arredondo comments. It showed shooter go in an out door 3 times. It showed no LEO tried door. DPS showed door was mechanically broken, not that it was left "unlocked".

I would have a hard time living with that if I found out later nothing was stopping me from going in except a faulty assumption on my part.
I imagine the ISD cop whose wife called him for help and he showed up and never tried to get into the room to save his wife who later died enroute to hospital is having a hard time also.
 

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That was a major screw up by DPS and Uvalde police. The guy who runs a department with only 5 people and the basic TCOLE active shooter training was left “ in charge” without the ability( and perhaps without the training) to supervise such an event. He didn’t have a radio to coordinate any response. They failed to take over the incident commander spot.
Wrong read.

The screwup is the initial responding officers did not press the fight. There never should have been anyone "in-charge". They did another Columbine. Initial responding officers encountered some gun fire, then set up a perimeter and did nothing for an hour. Officers responding after that just took up more perimeter positions, so it was domino fail.

Had they pressed the fight, it would have been over in minutes, since door was unlocked.
 
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