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An SRO engaged the school shooter in TX

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There was an SRO in the elementary school in the school shooting in TX. He was shot by the gunman defending the school.
Imagine how many more would be dead if a good guy with a gun wasn’t there.

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Discussion Starter · #381 ·
Anyone remember WACO that was all about dynamic entry they toasted and shot them and rolled over in tanks tear gas lead and flame.no matter what is put in print. They failed to get that Texas job done. They can talk about it for decades they will.....SOME MEMBERS HERE probably kids when this happened over 25 years ago.two incidents children died,one bad guy,and a number of good guys on another doing bad. View attachment 1072958
WACO is so different than what we are talking about.
WACO there was no surprise. The branch dividians were warned what was about to happen and trained against such actions. It was an ambush. Those agents did not have the advantage of numbers either.
 

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Now the Uvalde police and school district police are reportedly no longer cooperating with the Texas probe into the incident...

That seems pretty unusual to say the least...

Randy

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That is unfortunate, if correct. It simply adds further fuel to the fires of distrust within the community, county and state. Who ultimately comes out the winners (for the lack of a better term) will be the lawyers.
 
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Now the Uvalde police and school district police are reportedly no longer cooperating with the Texas probe into the incident...

That seems pretty unusual to say the least...

Randy

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Well, it certainly seemed that DPS went beyond “just the facts”, and began placing blame on the locals.
 

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Well, it certainly seemed that DPS went beyond “just the facts”, and began placing blame on the locals.
When they are throwing them under the bus within days the only thing they can do is lawyer up and circle the wagons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #389 ·
Now the Uvalde police and school district police are reportedly no longer cooperating with the Texas probe into the incident...

That seems pretty unusual to say the least...

Randy

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It appears to be that the “ school chief” isn’t cooperating. The individual officers may be still cooperating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #390 ·
That didn’t take long. Prosecutors tend to be anti cop too. It’s a job that take so they can check that box for higher positions later. She seems like one of those.
I might add it’s not the police department that is not cooperating. It’s the chief of the SCHOOL police not cooperating. It’s a different department
 

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She's a current defense attorney and pundit as she calls herself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #392 ·
According to the article, the amount of active shooter training is less than what Alerrt gives.

“In December 2021, just months ago, Arredondo completed an eight-hour school-based law enforcement training on active shooter situations at Southwest Texas Junior College, according to records reported by CBS News. “
And
“Arredondo completed the same course on August 25, 2020 and 16 hours of a 'Terrorism Response Tactics - Active Shooter' course on June 10, 2019, the records show. “
Unless that school based training and that terrorism response tactics- active shooter covered multi-agency response, the school chief’s status as IC should have been taken over by someone who was. The basic active shooter tactics training is focused on the team that goes in. The strategic decisions such as multiple teams, staging areas, and tac coordination are not focused on the basic active shooter course— basically the IC’s job.

Basic active shooter course description
It’s a 16 hour course

This is the course that trains the incident commander, tac coordinator, staging area manager, etc—it’s a 3 day course. By the course hours, it doesn’t look like the school chief had it .

Both are great courses. Alerrt also has a breeching course for first responders that uses shotguns. I haven’t taken that one but I’m sure more cops will now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #393 ·
Further investigation of the quality of his training. Here is that school based active training
It seems to talk about in the training when an active shooter can turn into a barricaded hostage situation and a barricaded perp situation but doesn’t role play it. It also doesn’t give any time to the management of the situation beyond escorting EMS or applying first aid themselves. And none of the role play had barriers like locked doors involved.
 

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From the linked training

An event that starts as an active shooter event can easily morph into a hostage crisis and vice versa. The patrol response and search tactics for dealing with active shooters and hostage/barricade situations are starkly different.
 

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Now the Uvalde police and school district police are reportedly no longer cooperating with the Texas probe into the incident...

That seems pretty unusual to say the least...

Randy

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Well, when the highway patrol is the investigating agency and they’re clearly out to get the PD - being that their chief already declared that the PD did wrong - they legitimately need to consider that they’re being considered as suspects.
 

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Further investigation of the quality of his training. Here is that school based active training
It seems to talk about in the training when an active shooter can turn into a barricaded hostage situation and a barricaded perp situation but doesn’t role play it. It also doesn’t give any time to the management of the situation beyond escorting EMS or applying first aid themselves. And none of the role play had barriers like locked doors involved.
Training’s one thing. Experience is something else altogether. A couple courses is often better than nothing, but it’s a poor substitute for having been there, done that. No matter how realistic we try to make it, it’s not the same as operational IC experience.

In point of fact, if the limited training a person has causes them to think they are now good to go in a role for which they are in reality unsuited because of inexperience, then the training has essentially had the opposite effect of what it intended. Especially if that person is suddenly thrown into, or by their own choice jumps into the deep end with a mess like this one. Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous if it causes us to overestimate our abilities.

Please note, I’m not necessarily saying that’s what happened here. I don’t know what the Chief’s operational experience is. Maybe he has a great deal of it, maybe he has little. He was in a tough situation either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #397 ·
Training’s one thing. Experience is something else altogether. A couple courses is often better than nothing, but it’s a poor substitute for having been there, done that. No matter how realistic we try to make it, it’s not the same as operational IC experience.

In point of fact, if the limited training a person has causes them to think they are now good to go in a role for which they are in reality unsuited because of inexperience, then the training has essentially had the opposite effect of what it intended. Especially if that person is suddenly thrown into, or by their own choice jumps into the deep end with a mess like this one. Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous if it causes us to overestimate our abilities.

Please note, I’m not necessarily saying that’s what happened here. I don’t know what the Chief’s operational experience is. Maybe he has a great deal of it, maybe he has little. He was in a tough situation either way.
Exactly. And even if he had experience from 15 years ago, does he still have the mind set or rather that “ edge”.
Active guys know this feeling I am talking about. Go on vacation , a inside assignment, or hospitalization for any extended time, it takes time ( from a few hours to a couple of weeks) to get that edge back. Now imagine years of being out.
 

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Well, when the highway patrol is the investigating agency and they’re clearly out to get the PD - being that their chief already declared that the PD did wrong - they legitimately need to consider that they’re being considered as suspects.
But wrong in a potentially criminal sense though, right? Or am I missing something…. I suppose they can charge whatever they want, going to be hard to say no, prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves…

Randy


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But wrong in a potentially criminal sense though, right? Or am I missing something…. I suppose they can charge whatever they want, going to be hard to say no, prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves…

Randy
What you're asking touches on why indemnification is so important in police work. Without indemnification, all the LEOs there can (and probably will) be sued civilly as individuals. OTOH, if they had kicked the doors outwards immediately, and some kid(s) got shot, the LEOs can also (and you know they will) be sued civilly as individuals.
 
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Discussion Starter · #400 ·
What you're asking touches on why indemnification is so important in police work. Without indemnification, all the LEOs there can (and probably will) be sued civilly as individuals. OTOH, if they had kicked the doors outwards immediately, and some kid(s) got shot, the LEOs can also (and you know they will) be sued civilly as individuals.
By the standards the latest lawsuit that gun manufacturers filed in New York seems to have, the parents can sue the outer door lock manufacturer, the classroom door manufacturer for not automatically locking before the criminal entered and not automatically opening for the police .

But more to your point, the individual officers who obeyed orders can be sued, the chief can be sued and the BorTac team too ( for not going in earlier).
And from the curriculum of the training that school chief got, he could have been trained to see it as a hostage situation because the shooting stopped. The children still in danger standard that the media has dubbed is BS. If it’s a hostage situation, they are still in danger. The question is why did the shooting of the children stop. The chief got it wrong. The shooter stopped, not to use the children as hostages, but because he didn’t know the killer thought he ran out of victims .
The report that a police officer called out and asked if anyone inside needed help and got shot for it was probably the killer pretending to be the police . ( Numerous active shooters have done this tactic). Even so, that gunshot should have initiated a breech by LE even if it was a hostage situation.
 
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