Glock Talk banner
361 - 380 of 476 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,063 Posts
Discussion Starter · #362 ·
Did anyone read the recent press report from the Gov who says he was misinformed about the SRO engagement? That the SRO couldn't be accounted for and may not have been on-premises??

Likely would have eliminated the need for 358 unnecessary and speculative posts. Unfortunately this thread was started without confirmation of facts, just like what the MSM does
It’s a department of 4, one detective and the chief. I bet you there was no SRO assigned that day , was reassigned, or just legitimately on his lunch break
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,022 Posts
It’s a department of 4, one detective and the chief. I bet you there was no SRO assigned that day , was reassigned, or just legitimately on his lunch break
If the online list I saw of the UCISD is correct and up-to-date, does that mean the school district police serve 9 school campuses? If they have to spread 4 SRO's to cover that many school grounds, perhaps they rely upon dispatching a SRO when a call comes in? Otherwise it's luck of the draw whether one is present, or assigned (HS?)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,157 Posts
If the online list I saw of the UCISD is correct and up-to-date, does that mean the school district police serve 9 school campuses? If they have to spread 4 SRO's to cover that many school grounds, perhaps they rely upon dispatching a SRO when a call comes in? Otherwise it's luck of the draw whether one is present, or assigned (HS?)?
Kinda immaterial at this point.

I think at this point it’s that “schools and local govt don’t take student safety & security seriously”
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,869 Posts
If the online list I saw of the UCISD is correct and up-to-date, does that mean the school district police serve 9 school campuses? If they have to spread 4 SRO's to cover that many school grounds, perhaps they rely upon dispatching a SRO when a call comes in? Otherwise it's luck of the draw whether one is present, or assigned (HS?)?
It’s funny. Around here some school districts get truly huge budgets. Like, days of wine and roses stuff. Some of it they spend wisely, some of it could definitely be put to better use. Precious little of it goes to hardening the schools, contracting with the local PDs for enough SROs, or training their teachers. If it went pear shaped up here again I doubt anyone would castigate the school district, but they’d for damn sure burn cops in effigy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,022 Posts
Kinda immaterial at this point.

I think at this point it’s that “schools and local govt don’t take student safety & security seriously”

Not sure I'd start painting with that broad of a brush.

Perhaps it might be more fair to speculate that they take it as seriously as they're prompted or required to take it, meaning by voters and the parents of school children. Otherwise, paying it sufficient lip service when nothing bad is happening might seem like enough ... until it's not.

Now, asking officials at local schools and local government public safety services how something is being addressed locally, referencing something horrific that just happened in another school district, might reveal whether parents feel their children's safety is being properly regarded by local officials and services.

The thing is that we've had many years to figure this out and put reasonable safeguards in effect. A lot of them cost money, and it's money that doesn't grow on trees ... and it's tax or bond money that needs to actually go to the specific desired purpose, and not just get kicked into the general pot to be spent as schools (or police?) may wish.

Perhaps many places just haven't had enough squeaky and screechy wheels making noise .... before the sounds of gunfire (or pipe bomb explosions) on school grounds are heard?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,869 Posts
Perhaps many places just haven't had enough squeaky and screechy wheels making noise .... before the sounds of gunfire (or pipe bomb explosions) on school grounds are heard?
I think with schools it’s because it’s not their primary role, nor do they want it to be. In the jail we used to reman our prisoners to there was a sign above booking that read “Good security is not convenient.” Simply put, I think good school security is both expensive and inconvenient and everyone wants someone else to deal with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,063 Posts
Discussion Starter · #370 ·
If the online list I saw of the UCISD is correct and up-to-date, does that mean the school district police serve 9 school campuses? If they have to spread 4 SRO's to cover that many school grounds, perhaps they rely upon dispatching a SRO when a call comes in? Otherwise it's luck of the draw whether one is present, or assigned (HS?)?
I doubt it’s luck of the draw. You assign them to the problem school(s). You might even assign two of them to the high school and the others to the middle schools . It’s where the majority of the issues will be. You put the resources where they are most “ needed” most often.
Gun play in the high or middle school is much more likely than an active shooter in an elementary school.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,022 Posts
I doubt it’s luck of the draw. You assign them to the problem school(s). You might even assign two of them to the high school and the others to the middle schools . It’s where the majority of the issues will be. You put the resources where they are most “ needed” most often.
Gun play in the high or middle school is much more likely than an active shooter in an elementary school.
It's not like kids (including teenage young adults), who often watch us more than we watch them, can't figure that out, either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,076 Posts
Ok….what about a Knox box. Guarantee you the school has one, it’s a modern school
The vast majority of cops do not have the keys to Knox boxes.

It was surprising to hear when they did. I bet it has a lot to do with things like cops going into closed businesses to sleep on graveyards way back in the day. We had an ancient policy when I got started that said you couldn't have any keys at work they weren't yours for your personal cars or house. I suspect some businesses didn't mind cops sleeping in their business after hours. Probably in the old days before radios in the cars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dukeboy01

·
Semper Paratus
Joined
·
31,057 Posts
I read an article which I have no way of finding now that said BorTac attempted a breach and failed which prompted the search for the key. So even a tactical team who I assume had some sort of breaching equipment struck out.

As we know, outward opening fire rated doors on a metal frame are the toughest thing out there to get in.
We are testing breaching rounds on them now I'm thinking two or three into the lock should do it or a small strip charge at the knob to blow the latch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Semper Paratus
Joined
·
31,057 Posts
Gentlemen, the question in my mind about this situation, is why aren't you paying someone like me. My company pays me to drift along above the fray until it's time for me to engage. If I engage, that is at my discretion. If I engage, I have backing, right up through all the executive layers. My only mission statement is to be right.
Well , my team could have been in that door in about 15 seconds with what we carry everyday, but we are not in Texas .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g and G29guy06

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,976 Posts
Just some thoughts for what it's worth.
We decry the media for jumping to conclusions, and putting a spin on things because anti police news seems to sell these days. Yet when fellow law enforcement read the same sources that are known to have an agenda, they somehow are experts on the topic and would of handled the situation differently.

From what I've read, law enforcement quickly intervened and the suspect was contained to a room. He still had access to victims but responders were stopped by a locked door that was difficult to breach.

If quick access isn't able to be gained, by design you have a barricade situation. That barricade can be resolved by dynamic entry, but either way it's still a barricade. You have to have the means to breach.

Dynamic entry is inherently dangerous, not just for the officers making the entry but for innocents in the room. Active gunfire stopped, if you attempt entry and fail it could prompt the gunman to finish the rest of the kids in the room. Yes, with some kids bleeding out the killing hasn't stopped. But even more can be killed if you prompt the gunman to finish everyone in the room. There is no good call here, but the least bad call is making entry. You are for a fact losing kids, prompting the gunman to kill more is just a possibility. But the fact remains with tools available to patrol that door was effectively not breachable. I have no tools in my toolbox to breach a locked steel door of the type used here. I wouldn't expect any patrol level officer to have that.

We're the windows an option? I don't know I wasn't there.

Sometimes you are handed a bad situation and just have to make the least bad call.

Everyone wants to put their two cents in. Just because the CEO of a tactical training group trashes the response doesn't necessarily mean he is correct. They do sell a product, and coordinate training for teams. Saying how poorly this was done, and illustrating alternate solutions which may or may not of been feasible given the resources available only goes to further their products. That doesn't mean it's necessarily bad ideas or information, but everyone has an agenda.

The media leading the public to believe the police did nothing only furthers animosity for police in what it already a media created anti law enforcement environment.

I think most people here that mention any sort of standardized response to these things either have worked in the same region their whole career, or most at the same agency. I have been taught several different responses to active shooter, in two different states I've worked. It's NOT standardized, and continues to evolve.

Those responses also change given the resources available. The goal is to stop the killing as quickly as possible. When it's all said and done, there will be an after action report done on this and some lessons will be learned.

DPS will not want any sort of actual ownership for the response. Of course they will distance themselves as much from the locals as possible to cover their own ass.

But it's extremely disheartening to see so many people jump to conclusions here and assume the responding officers screwed up. Maybe they did, but I'd rather make the assumption they wanted to do everything they could do save the kids, and they were just hindered by lack of resources.

What if it was you there, where you were feeling helpless other than to contain the shooter? You go through the worst expirence of your life, then everyone, even other cops who weren't there say you could of done more to save the kids. Every expert who likely has never done a response to an incident like this in the real world has an opinion from the comfort of their computer chair.

I've been inquiring about keys at my agency and so far I haven't got a clear response. Access to the schools in my jurisdiction is easy for me, as I have a key card issued. But access to a classroom like in this scenario I don't know what my options are. This is something that I'll have to discuss further and unfortunately it took this incident to even think about it.
 

·
AK-74
Joined
·
4,961 Posts
Anyone remember WACO that was all about dynamic entry they toasted and shot them and rolled over in tanks tear gas lead and flame.no matter what is put in print. They failed to get that Texas job done. They can talk about it for decades they will.....SOME MEMBERS HERE probably kids when this happened over 25 years ago.two incidents children died,one bad guy,and a number of good guys on another doing bad.
Flower Plant Cemetery Botany Grave
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,869 Posts
Anyone remember WACO that was all about dynamic entry they toasted and shot them and rolled over in tanks tear gas lead and flame.no matter what is put in print. They failed to get that Texas job done. They can talk about it for decades they will.....SOME MEMBERS HERE probably kids when this happened over 25 years ago.two incidents children died,one bad guy,and a number of good guys on another doing bad. View attachment 1072958
FAL, this thing is so far removed from Waco in every meaningful sense that the two aren’t worth mentioning in the same breath.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,063 Posts
Discussion Starter · #380 ·
We are testing breaching rounds on them now I'm thinking two or three into the lock should do it or a small strip charge at the knob to blow the latch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s not rocket science in a lot of ways. A few breeching rounds in a spare ammo case for a shotgun might be a good idea. A strip charge? Most patrol guys shouldn’t carry it. Too much that could go wrong . That’s a SWAT thing
 
361 - 380 of 476 Posts
Top