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I'm biding my time on this one. There's a great deal of conflicting narratives out there. I look forward to their convergence on something approximating reality.
 

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I appreciate the candid answer. You’ve given me some pause for thought.
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The reality is there are no one size fits all solutions. Sometimes it's just seeing how much bread you can get with your **** sandwich.
 
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I think you are assuming.

Per Texas DPS, 2 Uvalde police officers arrived at the same time as the SRO. The Uvalde officers exchanged gunfire with the suspect in the school.

CNN
This is exactly why I'm not injecting my opinion. We are being fed too much contradictory information right now. This really needs an unbiased investigation before we know what took place.
 

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The latest info I saw, is that 2 Uvalde officers were shot at through the classroom door, resulting in graze type injuries, after the shooter got into the classroom.

Pushing through a fatal funnel that the shooter is already shooting at seems like a losing proposition.
Sometimes it is time to embrace the suck and just take the action knowing there's no up side to the situation. I've stared that situation in the face and did what was needed. I will do so again if needed. I would trade my life for a child's.
 

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Just adding something to think about since they appear not to have had eyes on what was going on in the classroom.
You charge that fatal funnel and lose. What stops the gunman from moving to the next classroom?
How many rounds did you fire already? How many do you have left that point?
The gunman locked the door. How are you going to take that door? He may have been shooting through the door. Do you blindly return fire not knowing if he is using kids as human shields or not?
Too many questions right now. Hindsight is 20/20.
I am speaking of those cops outside those doors in the beginning who initially engaged the gunman before those quiet 911 calls from those kids came in.
In short, the rest of those 19 guys standing around with their thumbs in their ass.
 

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Those 19 guys weren’t there yet when the true decision needed to be made, when push forward needed to be done . Before the killer could set up.
The shots had alledgedly stopped. Again, what if the killer put human shields on the doors . Go look at the Pulse Nightclub response, both good and the bad. Rushing the door in that case would have gotten more people killed.
And how would you breach that locked door if was a security door. The real tac tram had to wait for a key
Those 19 were there very early on, shortly after 12. Get that janitor moving earlier, instead of 45 minutes later.
 

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Those 19 guys weren’t there yet when the true decision needed to be made, when the push forward needed to be done . Before the killer could set up.
The shots had alledgedly stopped. Again, what if the killer put human shields on the doors . Go look at the Pulse Nightclub response, both good and the bad. Rushing the door in that case would have gotten more people killed.
And how would you breach that locked door if was a security door. The real tac tram had to wait for a key.
I don’t know the set up of the school and the room. Was it exterior facing with windows? What kind of walls were there?
Not sure what you're reading about pulse but this is being toted up as exactly the same sort of failure. Missteps in Uvalde shooting response echo Pulse massacre, where 49 died
 

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View attachment 1071933

Which way does the classroom doors open? From the hallway (where the LEOs are standing), do the doors open away from them or into them?
I just read an article quoting Rep. Tony Gonzales. He stated that the doors opened out.
 
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If that is true, those doors wouldn't breach easy. Barring heavy breaching tools, those aren't opening up, especially under fire.

Which brings us back to why didn't the school police have keys, or FD keys from the knox box.

It brings me back to why weren't they working on using the classroom windows to end this.
Yes, and they were metal doors too, so not easy. If only they'd been locked when the shooter reached them..
 
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Stand by on that report about their active shooter training. We don’t know if it was real training or just some lectures yet.
I saw a portion of their training from 2 months ago. They had actual hands on exercises.
 
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I just want to ask all the people who are screeching and wailing that the line officers and deputies in Uvale should have disobeyed orders and crashed the classroom for a list of rules, orders and directives that subordinate officers can routinely ignore and willfully break.
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I'm sorry if it's different in your field, but I get paid to do the right thing. If management three levels up tells me this is what I need to do, and I disagree? They can **** right off. I have a long history of making the right calls under pressure and it gives me an incredible degree of discretion to operate. Those executives will demand my head on a platter if I'm wrong but so far, I haven't been.

Facing down a podunk little police chief? Let me count the ways I will steamroller him.
 

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Warbow, your response captivate me, please feel free to use my inbox
 

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My wife is a teacher. I am a supervisor over patrol and SROs. My wife has discussed safety measures that would help her class but i can see the double edged sword. Her door is heavy and opens out to the hallway. She does have a large window beside it that could be used for entry but she wants to install a lock from the inside to lock her room down. Great if she is ahead of an active shooter but what if the shooter gets in and now the door is reinforced /locked from the inside? Also, their lock down measures are lights out,shades drawn,door locked. Now that causes issues for LEOs seeing what's going from the outside,not to mention a sunny day and trying to see in.

The great ideas for keeping you secure are an exact opposite if the shooter gets in a room. Now it makes it more difficult once a barricade situation takes place. .
And as near as I can tell, exactly what happened here. An active shooter got inside and used the measures put in place against his ilk, to stymie the "good guys."
 
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Gentlemen, the question in my mind about this situation, is why aren't you paying someone like me. My company pays me to drift along above the fray until it's time for me to engage. If I engage, that is at my discretion. If I engage, I have backing, right up through all the executive layers. My only mission statement is to be right.
 

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Gents, that may be SARS, with his impeccable credentials, but someone needs to play the devil's advocate
 

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And regardless, someone still has to be at the tape providing scene security.
I'm pretty convinced that she was dealing with the Marshalls providing the perimeter security. Her perception of them standing around, is, well, them doing their job and preventing an even bigger cluster****. Her mention of her second son being away from the sound of shots by her first son's classroom suggest she was in multiple buildings.
 

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What is ****ing inexcusable is she knew he was coming to help and he was stopped by his peers and they didn't help him rescue her and the other kids, none of them are fit to wear a badge,,,NONE
Bro, you don't want to see my reaction to this. All circuits are dead, pray for a CNS hit on me. I would have one purpose and it would not care about repercussions.
 

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That’s why I mentioned they tossed the lawsuits against Peterson.
Dude, I have watched this thread and related threads. I have watched your endless cheerleading for AvonFatAssDonDo. You've once again impressed me as an admin Pogue, inflicted upon real men in spite of your vast and overwhelming incompetence. How DARE you quote ALERRT to defend a gutless coward who played with himself in a hallway instead of stepping up to be the IC. You keep stepping up to defend him from the criticism he richly deserves. This situation called for brutal action by violent men. Not endless simpering and inaction.
 
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