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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There was an SRO in the elementary school in the school shooting in TX. He was shot by the gunman defending the school.
Imagine how many more would be dead if a good guy with a gun wasn’t there.

 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Can’t get the reply button to work again

I’ll willing to bet that’s the door the SRO went out to confront the shooter outside the school . He did not exchange fire with the gunman until he entered the school . Then exchanged fire that pinned the gunman to one classroom. That’s when the gunman opened fired on the students.
I do not know why the teacher didn’t have the door locked. Maybe it couldn’t lock.

“Somehow, Ramos was able to get inside the school as the officer “followed him in immediately” and then gunfire was exchanged, McCraw said”

 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
The SRO in this case did their job. They confronted the shooter and shot it out with him. It’s why the shooter was confined to one classroom. If anything to critique in his actions was being timid to go to deadly force earlier. But in todays railroading of cops environment, we can’t really blame him. He is discribed as engaging him before the gunman entered the building, causing the gunman to drop his extra ammo. He appears to have gone to physical force over deadly physical force until the gunman actually entered the building . That’s when the gun fight started. The gunman is said to have attempted to two other classes but were locked out. He found a third door unlocked which was that classroom where he shot the kids. If that door was locked, he might have been stopped.
The SRO was shot and stayed in the fight.

The critique of the police response is that they waited to enter the room earlier. The SRO did his or her job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
If you are an active shooter, and you lock yourself into a room with victims, you are a barricaded ACTIVE SHOOTER, not a barricaded suspect.
ESU aren’t the only ones. The old boro task force, now SRG, have long guns as well. Quick response? Luck of the draw. New York City traffic can play a big roll in that.
It will be a handgun vs whatever the bad guy has in the beginning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Not if you're no longer actively shooting. Then you're a hostage taker. At least that's how we looked at it. Continued dynamic response by the lesser trained first- responding patrol teams was judged more likely to result in additional civilian casualties than slowing down, containing the subject, and going the negotiator/ SWAT route to end the scenario.

At the end of the day all of these things are an exercise in picking your poison, choosing the lesser of many evils, and trying to engineer the least horrible of many potentially horrible outcomes.
Exactly. It becomes a barricaded hostage situation. We don’t know when he started or stopped shooting hostages beyond his initial entry. The shooting might have stopped before the other officers arrived to relieve the SRO who had been shot .
Thry didn’t make an earlier entry because they didn’t have a key to the now locked classroom door— officers were shot in the attempted entry
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Sounds like no SRO "engaged" the shooter upon entering. He just walked in and started killing.

Shooter was in classroom for an hour before he was killed.

That's what I'm hearing initially today.

“At a back door on the west side of the school building, Ramos was confronted by a school resource officer — though McCraw said “gunfire was not exchanged”

But then:

“Somehow, Ramos was able to get inside the school as the officer “followed him in immediately” and then gunfire was exchanged, McCraw said”

The SRO did exchange gunfire with him inside the school and then he got into a classroom. The gunman locked the door, and shot up the room. The SRO was hit by gunfire in their exchange.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Not every report is saying there was a SRO present. Like just now on Fox News.

I'm not allowed to quote posts on the cop subforum. So,I'll post elsewhere. My apologies.
You could be right. The initial press conferences could be wrong
“The suspect walked into the school and was not confronted by a school resource officer, Escalon said. He said media reports stating otherwise were inaccurate.”
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
New info as reported on the non-cop forum

There might not have been an SRO



The suspect walked into the school and was not confronted by a school resource officer, Escalon said. He said media reports stating otherwise were inaccurate.

Once inside the building, the gunman walked into a hallway and then made his way into a classroom, Escalon said.

"Four minutes later, local police departments, Uvalde Police Department, the Independent School District Police Department are inside, making entry," he said. "They hear gunfire, they take rounds, they move back, get cover. And during that time, they approach where the suspect is at."
All of the information at the intial press conference might be wrong
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
I really, really hate to recommend the New York Times, but they're updating a lot of information. Subscription required to read most of it, unfortunately. I'll copy and quote as much as the mods will let me get away with, because screw the NY Times.

One of the more hysterical complaints I've seen was that some of the cops went in and evacuated their own kids, but wouldn't let all the grief- crazed parents into get their kids. Turns out that's true, but it's not that nefarious or shocking. From the Times:

Jacob Albarado had just sat down for a haircut when he got a text message from his wife Trisha, a fourth-grade teacher at Robb Elementary.
“There’s an active shooter,” she said in the message. “Help,” and then: “I love you.”
Mr. Albarado, an off-duty Border Patrol officer, ran out of the barbershop and sped to the school.
His wife and the children she taught were hiding under desks and behind curtains. Their daughter, a second grader at Robb, was locked in a bathroom, she said.
Once he got to the school, he learned that a tactical team was already forming to enter the wing where the shooter was holed up. So Mr. Albarado quickly made a plan with other officers at the scene: evacuate as many children as possible.
Armed with a shotgun that his barber had lent him, Mr. Albarado said he led his colleagues toward the wing of the school that housed his daughter’s classroom.
“I’m looking for my daughter, but I also know
what wing she’s in,” he said, “so I start clearing all the classes in her wing.”
Two officers provided cover, guns drawn, he said, and two others guided the children out on the sidewalk. They brought out dozens of kids and their teachers, he said, many of whom emerged screaming.
“They were just all hysterical, of course,” he said.
When he finally saw his 8-year-old daughter Jayda, he said he hugged her, but then kept moving the other children along.
“I did what I was trained to do,” Mr. Albarado said.


So, yes, this guy went and got his wife and kids. But he got everyone else's kids who were in that wing as well. And he was evacuating the other wing away from where the shooter was barricaded. That's tactically sound. It's not like he was rushing the part of the school where the shooter was, grabbing just his kids, and running back out.

Anyway, here's the link to the rest of the NY Times stories and updates.

Thank you for the new info. The initial press conference reports were wrong. The SRO police appear to have engaged but not when initially reported and responded with the initial patrol officers. Who then engaged and tied him down to the one classroom .

 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
I disagree with you on the SRO. An SRO is typically considered assigned to a school to provide immediate law enforcement support. A school district police officer is not assigned to a school and is not fulfilling dutied an SRO does. They would be doing whatever their assigned duties are. So if its just a school district LEO then that isnt an SRO.

My old dept would staff the SROs and police response to the schools even though the school system had their own LE agency.
If the person who is being called an SRO wasn’t assigned to that school and wasn’t at the school when the situation occurred then he or she should not be called the SRO
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
24/7 instant news cycle. It’s better to be first, spectacular, and wrong, than late and accurate. You can always run that correction downstream. Just so long as they keep clickin’.
We can’t blame the press. It was the information give out to them at the official news conference
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
This just keeps getting worse.

Victor Escalon, Texas Department of Public Safety regional director for South Texas said Thursday the officers who first arrived on the scene did not make entry initially because of the "gunfire they're receiving," adding that the U.S. Border Patrol tactical teams arrived one hour later.
By what to they mean by entry? The school or the classroom itself. They had a shootout where? In the hallway or outside the school?
 

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Discussion Starter · #125 ·
Texas is the home to ALERRT, one of the pre-eminent active shooter training programs hosted by the Texas State University. Those trained in active shootings should know the protocols for active shooter versus barricaded shooter. That being said, there will be lots of questions, some very deep investigations and ultimately, there will be reports showing the failures and the wins including whether remaining fixed was appropriate or if the PD, Sheriff's office and school staff had any recent ASR training. But it should drive home to schools to not get complacent with security, especially with copycats wanting their 15 minutes of grim fame.

Shields, breaching equipment and training should not be a luxury for agencies. It's damnable shame that the Biden Administration and their ilk won't see that and fund that rather than worrying about little used LVNRs. The money recently spent on supporting Ukraine could have paid for shields, breaching tools and compensation for training time for every agency in the US. Hell, all the money spent on Ukraine over the last three months could have paid for added physical security to nearly every rural or small school district in our country. But politicians want dead kids to push their agendas and will blame agencies for the failures rather than appropriately harden and secure schools.
A lot of the “military “ equipment that the Obama administration stopped funding for could have breeched a classroom that faced an exterior wall.
Why was it a border patrol “ SWAT” team? I don’t know if they have an MOU where they share resources on a routine basis. Where they the nearest team because of the budget funding?
 

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Discussion Starter · #158 ·
So.... three days before the mass murder at the Uvalde elementary school, this law enforcement training event was held at the Uvalde high school: https://www.facebook.com/.../posts/d41d8cd9/317805947078308/

Screenshot in case they take it down:
View attachment 1071604
They don’t appear to be the lead guys on scene. They were the school cops who responded with regular patrol and were in the shootout. The question is could those particular cops press forward at that time. Let’s see what develops because the initial reports were wrong and there is push back on the story that they could have moved forward or did nothing
 

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Discussion Starter · #164 ·
They were in fact, the lead on the scene. It was their Chief Pete Arredondo who was the on-site incident commander McCraw referenced as having made the bad decisions.
Thank you for the correct info. Too much chatter/false info
But what I meant was the patrol guys who first engaged with the school cop(s). They should have pressed the attack if possible. If the shots stopped when that chief took command then the chief was right. If the shots with the students happened with initial engagement, those officers made the decision
 

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Discussion Starter · #168 ·
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