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Sheriffs/police chiefs - and by extensions their communities - have to be willing to spend more on training. Officers absolutely cannot be proficient at dynamic entry, gunfighting, and hostage/victim rescue without proper (valid, current tactics taught be SMEs), frequent training and practice. If they want their patrol officers to aggress and stop an active shooter such as in a school, they absolutely have to do more. Good training costs time and money.

With low staffing, training time is more precious than ever. Regulatory agencies like POST need to eliminate mandatory training that isn’t there to win fights and solve crimes. Pretty much if it doesn’t require a safety briefing and a first aid kit on site, then it isn’t worth cutting a chunk of time out for.

Pony up.
That would require a couple of things ...

First, that AO training no longer include burning up limited training hours addressing whatever hot button issues come along that some legislators think needs to be taught to cops.

Second, that you have the best people available to not only excel at the advanced training, but have the initiative, will power and mindset to put themselves in Harm's Way to protect the innocent victims at soft target sites, and not just huddle up and wait for help, themselves.

Both are probably going to prove to be difficult to achieve in today's societal and political climate. More's the pity.

Then again, I'm only on my second cup of coffee and am still in pessimist-mode.
 

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Why is it, that the same politicians that don't want suspects convicted of crimes sent to prison/jail, or requiring cash bail, are the same ones that want to make more laws after incidents like this?

Maybe if we vigorously investigated, and prosecuted crimes committed by armed suspects, and made sure every "gun crime" that resulted in a conviction ended with a jail/prison sentence. Maybe then we would change behavior.

I know locally, no "prohibited persons" that try to buy a gun from an FFL, and get rejected during the background check get prosecuted. No one goes to jail for illegally carrying/possessing a firearm. Violent criminals that get charged with "felon in possession of a firearm" get sent to federal court, because the state courts don't treat that crime seriously.
You're going to run headlong into the 'restorative justice' folks, as well as the political activists (including some prosecutors) who don't want to see the wrong demographic of violent criminals spend years behind bars. It's not 'fair', and it's really society's fault, right? :rolleyes:

Same old song and dance, made new again ...

It's better - from a political perspective, it appears - to pass such laws than to face the consequences of seeing them actually enforced. 😨
 

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A couple interesting comments made to the press ...

“We have an active shooter situation, we’re trying to preserve any further loss of life, and as much as they want to go into that school, we cannot have individuals go into that school, especially if they’re not armed.”
Olivarez also said they were still gathering the exact details of the initial confrontation between the shooter and a school resource officer. Olivarez said the initial report he had received was that gunfire was exchanged between the two, but that information had yet to be corroborated.
No comment to the first statement, but I found it an interesting thing to say.

The second comment? I'm surprised no reported asked whether the weapon carried by the SRO was taken into evidence, and if a preliminary inspection revealed whether or not it had been fired? (Remaining round count, if nothing else.)

Perhaps the security video being obtained by the FBI will reveal more, when it's released (or at least discussed).

 

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...

But just yesterday, I was reading about a Sheriff's Office getting lambasted for having "military armaments" in CA.

They had an MRAP, 5 HMMV's, 40 mm grenade launchers, M4 carbines, and MP-5's. Not to mention 11 commercial drones. The comments were full of people decrying the militarization of police, and wondering why police would need such weapons.
Always an unwinnable coin toss.

Why do you have them?!?

Or ...

Why don't you have them?!? (When I need you to have them. :eek:)

The old "Heads I win/Tails you lose" when we're not the ones flipping the coin. ;)

Blame-storming is always going to be used to protect the responsible? o_O

Dunno. Don't pretend to know.

It's always the People in the Know who are never wrong, but seldom right, who seem to peddle the answers, huh?
 
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Huh?

There was no SRO. This entire thread is based on a false premise.
Sgt. Erick Estrada of the Texas Department of Public Safety told CNN that when the shooter got to the school, he encountered a school resource officer, dropped a black bag with ammunition inside and entered the school.

Not discounting the potential for any news media source to get their facts wrong (or rushed), it seems the TDPS is under the impression there was a SRO involved at the scene. Hopefully, his agency vetted and conformed the information being released to the press. No guarantees, though.
 

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This is what happens when LE agencies, presumably with the best of intentions to be completely transparent, try to release information too quickly? The potential for initial info to be incomplete, or even incorrect, is often a very real possibility. Trouble can sometimes come when agencies wish to get ahead of horrific events in their efforts to be 'transparent" ... and more so when there may be 2 or more agencies involved. Damn, right?

An hour ago ...

Officials clarified the timeline of the shooting Thursday after giving varying accounts. They refused to answer many questions about the tactics.

 

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Now there’s an idea. Have a “panic button” they wear as a pendant that when pressed locks all the doors.
:ROFLMAO: That practice might not last a week, if it even lasted a couple of days.

Having teachers and other staff wearing 'panic buttons' that automatically locked all doors would probably generate a continual series of unintentional lock activations. If not for how they were worn, handled and touched, then the inevitable issues resulting in false activations due to system issues (due to equipment and lowest bidder vendor). At some point (and probably not very long) the staff would probably end up deciding to leave the panic buttons in desks, hanging on a nail, etc.

Then, there's the issue of initial cost and maintenance. Maybe if they linked the expensive electric lock system to cellphones, since most teachers and staff might carry them? Then, of course, there would still be the 'butt lock' to deal with ... :p

Nice idea, though.
 
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... However, as in Beslan, if they do get dug in with all those dead man switches, a breach / assault might not be the right choice. Of course, that whole thing was just different on a whole other level.

Move to contact and engage the bad guy(s), unless it’s the wrong choice. Then do something else.
You win the understatement prize for the day. :)
 

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I really, really hate to recommend the New York Times, but they're updating a lot of information. Subscription required to read most of it, unfortunately. I'll copy and quote as much as the mods will let me get away with, because screw the NY Times.

One of the more hysterical complaints I've seen was that some of the cops went in and evacuated their own kids, but wouldn't let all the grief- crazed parents into get their kids. Turns out that's true, but it's not that nefarious or shocking. From the Times:

Jacob Albarado had just sat down for a haircut when he got a text message from his wife Trisha, a fourth-grade teacher at Robb Elementary.
“There’s an active shooter,” she said in the message. “Help,” and then: “I love you.”
Mr. Albarado, an off-duty Border Patrol officer, ran out of the barbershop and sped to the school.
His wife and the children she taught were hiding under desks and behind curtains. Their daughter, a second grader at Robb, was locked in a bathroom, she said.
Once he got to the school, he learned that a tactical team was already forming to enter the wing where the shooter was holed up. So Mr. Albarado quickly made a plan with other officers at the scene: evacuate as many children as possible.
Armed with a shotgun that his barber had lent him, Mr. Albarado said he led his colleagues toward the wing of the school that housed his daughter’s classroom.
“I’m looking for my daughter, but I also know
what wing she’s in,” he said, “so I start clearing all the classes in her wing.”
Two officers provided cover, guns drawn, he said, and two others guided the children out on the sidewalk. They brought out dozens of kids and their teachers, he said, many of whom emerged screaming.
“They were just all hysterical, of course,” he said.
When he finally saw his 8-year-old daughter Jayda, he said he hugged her, but then kept moving the other children along.
“I did what I was trained to do,” Mr. Albarado said.


So, yes, this guy went and got his wife and kids. But he got everyone else's kids who were in that wing as well. And he was evacuating the other wing away from where the shooter was barricaded. That's tactically sound. It's not like he was rushing the part of the school where the shooter was, grabbing just his kids, and running back out.

Anyway, here's the link to the rest of the NY Times stories and updates.

Out-freaking-standing. Rushing to save wife and daughter, using the training, mindset and clarity of thinking that's representative of the best we all hope to portray in dire circumstances.

And a special thank you to the barber who loaned him a shotgun (and had one close at hand to loan).

Saving not just his loved ones, but the loved ones of all the other families. 🇺🇸🚓
 

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One of the lessons learned from this tragedy might - hopefully - be that while everyone demands transparency and instant answers to any and all questions during a crisis, giving out information that hasn't been thoroughly vetted and confirmed can cause more confusion and strife, and no real benefit may obtained by genuflecting at the altar of transparency. Don't be bullied by the media eager to 'get it out first'. Sigh. That's on LE.
 

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Well, with this revelation ...

Interesting. Probably someone known to a lot of people in that community.

For Pete Arredondo, new Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District chief of police, Uvalde is his hometown. It’s a place he describes as a fantastic community where he was born, raised and grew up going to class, graduating from Uvalde High School in 1990. With a little more than a month on the job under his belt, he says he’s glad to be back here serving the community.

Arredondo was not among a contingent of law enforcement officials who were on hand at a Friday morning news conference.
McCraw revealed that an on-scene commander made a calculation that the event transitioned from an active shooter situation to a barricade event. McCraw added that it took more than an hour for officials to enter the room.
"Of course, it was not the right decision," McCraw said. "It was the wrong decision. Period. There's no excuse for that."
Wonder if he's polishing up his resume, although this is going to be hard to make it shine ...

I'd also have to wonder if he was getting any advice from any of his (or any other agency's) other experienced people on-scene not to keep waiting?

This is one nasty sandwich that a few people are going to have to take a big bite out of it. Dammit.
 

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I’d be interested to know the SRO chief’s experience, as well as the SROs for the school district. Any experience at a decent-sized PD or SO, perennial school officer, only worked small town with low crime, high speed big city? How much time did he spend as a patrol sergeant and lieutenant before becoming chief? What’s the biggest team he ever supervised?

And what kind of training did the SROs have? Up-to-date training or just the same old same old with low-speed stuff? Do they stay in house or send their guys to top-tier instructors?



Also:
In March, Arredondo posted on Facebook his department was hosting an "Active Shooter Training" at Uvalde High School in an effort to prepare local law enforcement to respond to "any situation that may arise." A flyer for the event he posted stated topics covered would include priorities for school-based law enforcement and how to "Stop the Killing."
Arredondo previously served as a captain at a school district police department in Laredo, Texas, and in multiple roles at the Uvalde Police Department.

Arredondo has 27 years of active law enforcement experience and joins the district from Laredo United Independent School District where he served as captain.
His previous experience includes serving in the Uvalde Police Department, where he advanced to the rank of assistant chief of police and the Webb County Sheriff’s office.

He was also recently elected a seat on Uvalde’s city council. Wonder how that might work out now?
 

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'A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field,' ...
Duh. That ought to go without ever having to be said ... but apparently it needs to be tattooed among some folks working in modern policing. Or made into a mural-sized 'inspirational poster' that's at the front of every briefing room and on all the walls of all locket rooms. Then, make sure there's one predominantly displayed on the wall of the Sheriff or Chief, facing their desk. Sigh.

Then again, I remember feeling sad when I saw a new section added to the GO's which described cowardice as prohibited behavior, thinking it was ridiculous it had to be spelled out in the GO's as something that wasn't right. Welcome to the new world of modern policing in America??
 
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Speculation can of course be dangerous, but this is sounding more and more like a doctrine / training issue also contributed. I obviously wasn’t there, but usually officers with eyes actually on the scene have at least some limited authority to exercise initiative if orders become untenable or if opportunity arises. The fact that nobody on scene seems to have done that until BP arrived tends to indicate:
A). The order not to breach and assault made sense and was obeyed by those on scene.
B). The order was, at some point, not longer viable but no one on scene felt they had authority to countermand it and proceed with a breach / assault.
C). The order to delay was perceived as incorrect but they lacked the ability to breach.
D). There was a butt ton of confusion and nobody felt strongly enough to exercise their own initiative.
E). Perhaps no such order was issued and this is another bit of inaccurate info.

At any rate, there was a period of inaction which, rightly or wrongly, was adhered to by all present. And quite a few were present. I have no earthly idea of the realities they were addressing during this period, I’m sure they had quite a bit of info we don’t. But, for whatever reason, either all at the scene either agreed with the delay, didn‘t feel strongly enough to act in the presence of a flawed order, or couldn’t do anything about it.
Perhaps a "F Section" might be added, covering the dismaying possibility that active shooter training and doctrine had essentially been more or less window dressing up until that point, and once the rubber met the road it all fell apart.

Kind of like how someone can sit through repeated training sessions of first responder first aid, and be given a really nice first aid kit in the veh ... but then something nasty and bloody happens and all that classroom training, listed in the training file, fails to be effectively utilized and the contents of the first aid kit are dumped on the ground.
 

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Since you mentioned it I have my own story. Not long after Bratton came to LA, he transitioned the Department to Glocks from Beretta 92F’s. One evening I was sent to go pick up Braxton at his home and transport him to the hospital where a wounded officer was being treated. During our ride, we exchanged small talk. I thanked him for allowing Glocks and told him I had recently transitioned myself. Without missing a beat he replied, “Don’t thank me.. I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with Beretta.” So that in a nutshell is how LAPD ushered in Glocks.
Unsurprising. Not like that's a one-off, either ... :whistle:
 

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Understand, I’m not making a value judgment here, but the shooter was definitely isolated, and almost certainly distracted by the presence of officers outside the door. He was not neutralized.

The priority of life portion you posted does not mandate a breach / assault or specify any particular course of action for that matter.
Not everyone in the Public may grasp that policies and 'mission statements' are often written to sound good, but still allow (realistically require) latitude for broader interpretation and application when situations are dynamic and evolving. There's always going to be some inherent chaos which can influence how events are being interpreted in real-time, on the tip of the spear (so to speak).

Hell, there's always going to be ascending/descending layers of cops who may find themselves conflicted when faced with seemingly untenable choices, none of which may be comfortably pigeon-holed as 'best' within existing written policies and training strategies and tactics.

A good way to make one of many possible mistakes is to ignore the input from the line staff, and any supervisors, who are actively up front, looking down the muzzle of the problem, so to speak. One of my favorite screenplay lines from a recent movie, which has a foundation in off-screen, real life is "Let the painter paint".

Damn, though. The more the layers of this onion are being peeled back, the more it's creating more questions than answers, and you just know the eventual answers aren't going to sit well with anyone. This is going to be one of those incidents which will serve as training class discussion and study material in LE training for some time to come. The lessons to be learned from this will have been purchased at a very high cost in innocent blood, too. Dammit.
 

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I am not arguing.

I am quoting what professionals have said. Asking if there are alternative views, which none have been provided.
Is there some particular 'answer' you're wanting to hear from someone? What alternative view is it you're waiting to hear put forth?

Professionals can make mistakes. It's becoming increasingly apparent that this is what happened in this TX elementary school incident.

Why that mistake was made in the real-time of the critical incident is going to be put under many magnifying glasses of various sizes. Whether a better decision could've been made, and when - and what it could've been - is a question that's going to remain under discussion for the near future. Hindsight applied to this event won't be able to predict the circumstances of the next event.

Even the best training is going to be subject to being affected by the quality and timeliness of the decision-making that's going to be done the next time. The best training and decision-making in the USA isn't going to change the fact that these events are initiated and set in motion by some deranged, evil mind. Imagine if another deranged, angry evil person decides that getting a semiauto rifle is too difficult, so pipe bombs are used? Or driving a flame-engulfed PU truck, filled with cans and bottles of gasoline through the wall of a classroom is the only way to achieve their twisted ends?
 
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