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Almost 9mm MAX load

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by robhic, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. es 350

    es 350

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    As other here have said for "hot" loads you want a slow powder! Fast powders can spike in pressure really quick with slight changes in charge weight, oal, etc.

    800x although not fun to work with (needs hand weighed ) will give top velocities in all service calibers.

    Although I AM NOT RECOMMENDING this power level!!!!!
    In a purpose built 6.6" 17L barrel I achieved 829 ft lbs with a 130 cast bullet of my design using 800x powder. This was a long throat barrel with a muzzle brake .
    Longshot, Power Pistol, 800X , HS6 etc. Is what you want for hot loads.
     
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  2. jmorris

    jmorris

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    1695 FPS is moving on out for a 9mm in a 6.6" barrel, over 220 PF!
     

  3. DWB57

    DWB57

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    Just got a pound of be-86 and I got plus p vel while staying within alliants load data. Shooting these out of a g-34 also helped but I worked up from 5.5 to 5.9 max for the new rmr 124 gr jhp loaded to 1.09 oal and I got right at 1250 vel at the max load. Didn't shoot many of them but this load has got me thinking about trying it out on a doe this hunting season. lol
     
  4. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I have to go back and check my notes for charge weight, but BE86 is what Federal uses in their 124gr +P HST loads (likely all their 9mm HST loads, but have not pulled any others). The +P 124gr HST is a very compressed charge, after pulling the bullet, I had to break up the powder with a punch before it would fall out of the case.
     
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  5. robhic

    robhic I'm your huckleberry.... Platinum Member Silver Member

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    Interesting. I originally thought "keyhole" as the hole was a sideways-looking penetration instead of a hole. My only experience with keyholing was a leaded-up .22LR. Then someone told me to look at the 'tagboard' bullseye target to see if it was torn and if (using lead bullets as I was) there was silver colored smear on the torn part. There was, so keyholing was said to be "tearing" and caused by underpowered loads. I upped my loads until (with HS-6) I got to 4.7gr and no change. This has convinced me to try 5.0...
     
  6. robhic

    robhic I'm your huckleberry.... Platinum Member Silver Member

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    I was using a 147gr cast LFN bullet from T&B (https://tbbullets.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/380-9mm/) and I, too, expected nice, round holes. Still just want to get that and that was (mostly) the purpose of this. I maybe should have said "hotter" instead of "hot" because I'm not going for a flamethrower supersonic nuclear load :supergrin: just a faster than what I've been using to see if I could get the tears to a round hole.
     
  7. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Actual keyholing is quite rare. Most frequently, the shape of the hole through paper is related more to the backing you are using and the paper in the target itself. A flimsy target (thin paper) not solidly stuck to a firmer backing will many times exhibit holes that resemble keyholing. That same target taped firmly against a flat cardboard backing will exhibit nice round holes (the sharpness of the edge cut being solely dictated by the shape of the ogive/meplat, that is, a wad cutter will leave very sharp cuts, a RN bullet move of a pucker like hole.)
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    If you play gun games with a power factor, chrono is mandatory or know a friend who has one so you can check your data.
     
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  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yes keyholing or tumbling but there are degrees. If the bullet is unstable it will yaw, so the hole will look odd, oblong not round. Tears though, usually a paper issue, not bullet issue.
     
  10. noylj

    noylj

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    1) If you want near max velocity, you go to Blue Dot, AA7, 3N37, or N350. Bullseye is NOT going to get top performance.
    In fact, just in terms of accuracy (which is all I care about), any powder faster than AA5 performs really poorly. Best powder I have found is Power Pistol (still haven't tested BE-86), with Silhouette being second best. PP will consistently hold under 3" at 25 yards.
    2) You get leading if the bullets are 1) too hard and small or 2) the bullets are too soft and fast.
    For 9x19, they don't go fast enough, even for an 8 BHN alloy, and for HARD (18-22 BHN) alloys, they often need to be 0.002" over ACTUAL measured groove diameter.
    9x19 groove diameter is specified as being between 0.355 and 0.359".
    3) Keyholing is often seen at 10 yards and the hole is the bullet's profile. In most cases, this is caused by the bullet being too small or the barrel having issues. An oblong hole is often due to insufficient target backing to hold the target in place.
    keyhole DSCF8944rd-vi small size.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  11. fredj338

    fredj338

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    OR a bullet in yaw. Properly stabilized, a bullet should make a round hole. Even if the backing or target paper is wanting, the hole will be round with lateral tears.
    Most accurate +p vel load I have put together was with Unique & a 124gr XTP, well under 2" @ 25yds, 1250fps. With cast you just have to play with things more.
     
  12. es 350

    es 350

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    For sure this was on the ragged edge pressure wise , even though case head measurements was still way less than expected. Just shows what proper components are capable of . This was ONLY an experiment AND DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE TRY TO DUPLICATE!


    My intent was not to suggest you or anyone load to 800+ft lbs in 9mm!
    Only that proper choice of components can produce BIG numbers in properly modified platforms.
    700 ft lb loads were completely safe in THAT gun.
    I also have some of Travis's 147 gr 9mm bullets, have not loaded any as of yet.
    All of his other bullets I have loaded shot great at normal velocities/ per caliber.

    When pushing above normal velocities I find accuracy and leading are improved by changing the lube. Not to say his lube is junk, it works fine for intended velocities .

    As far as bullet "yaw" or "keyholing", every bullet has a "perfect" twist rate for rotation speed to stabilize the bullet. This is were perfection could lead down a long road and why benchrest shooting can be expensive !
    Bullet bearing length and velocity of said bullet effect speed at which bullet spins .

    This can be best observed in muzzleloaders, a front stuffer designed to shoot round balls (almost no bearing surface) will have a very slow twist rifling like 1 turn in 66 inches.
    A barrel designed to shoot long bearing surface bullets may be 1 turn in 28 inches . Both in thier properly designed barrels can be amazingly accurate.
    Switch bullets and be prepared for shotgun cylinder bore patterns.

    A compromise in muzzleloader is 1-48 twist to shoot long and short bearing bullets "acceptablely" . This is how most all guns are manufactured , acceptable accuracy with any common bullet weight.

    What handloaders do is find the optimum velocity range (if possible) to stabilize the bullet as best we can . The higher the velocity , the faster the bullet will rotate.

    Only time I have had a bullet actually keyhole was in a 357 1-20 twist barrel shooting 158 cast at less than 1100 fps from a 9mm case .

    Hickok45 also had this problem shooting heavy cast in 10mm Glock, bullets long bearing surface does not have enough velocity/rotation speed to stabilize.
     
  13. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I have found sim issues shooting Xtreme 220gr in my stock G20sf. I don't get keyholes but accuracy is better with 200gr.
     
  14. DWB57

    DWB57

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    Yes that would be interesting I don't remember it looking like these loads would be very compressed possible a little.
     
  15. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    The 124gr +P HST load was 6.2gr of BE86.
     
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