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Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by MCNETT, Aug 25, 2003.
8.7 is max published load for 180gr for power pistol.
new starline brass, cci 350, oal 1.257~ , 180 Remington Golden Saber JHP. 11 gr Blue Dot
Glock 6" barrel
This 11 grain load gave me really consistent velos in the carbine. No overpressure signs in the Glock. Think it will be the load a build a pile of for the pair.
new starline brass, cci 350, oal 1.257~ , 180 Remington Golden Saber JHP. 11.5 gr Blue Dot
11.5 load didn't give me 5 consistent shots in Glock. Velos all over. I'm guessing it's still expanding after bullet has left barrel, so powder's being wasted. Carb was ok. No real pressure signs in glock. didn't make full chamber expansion all the time. Least I know I should be safe to this point if I get variances in progressive loaded 11 gr loads.
new starline brass, cci 350, oal 1.257~ , 165 Remington Golden Saber JHP. 11 gr Blue Dot
High 1391 (1 out of 4 oddball, 100 fps faster than the rest)
load wasn't super consistent in carbine. in glock, 1 round 100 fps over the rest.
I did some testing of Power Pistol today. I didn't get quite the velocity that some have but I was pretty happy with the results (you bastards up in the mountains have it easy). Elevation 1,115ft, temp 35 F.
All of these were with 165 grain Speer Gold Dots, new starline cases, OAL 1.258 (±.002). I shot 10 loads of each over the chrono, however a few of them didn't read on the display so I don't have 10 readings for each load). Also, all of these loads were tested out of my Glock 20/21 with the 6" KKM 45-10mm barrel, and 24# spring. Most importantly, I did not have a single malfunction of any kind during today's shooting.
I also compared the difference between the large pistol primer (CCI300) and Federal Large Pistol Magnum primer.
9.7 grains of Power Pistol:
First, the Large Pistol primer (CCI300):
Loads measured: 10
Std Dev: 16.89
Max energy: 701 ft/lbs
Ave energy: 678 ft/lbs
Now with Mag Primers (Federal)
Loads measured: 10
Std Dev: 9.94
Max energy: 701 ft/lbs
Ave energy: 683 ft/lbs
Conclusions... The mag primer makes the load burn more consistent, although not really significantly more powerful (exact same max velocity and just five more pounds average energy).
Now the 10.0gr loads (which are the max listed load per Alliant)
CCI Large Pistol Primer
Loads measured: 8
Std Dev: 12.63
Max energy: 746 ft/lbs
Ave energy: 720 ft/lbs
Federal Large Pistol Magnum Primer
Loads measured: 7
Std Dev: 11.87
Max energy: 730 ft/lbs
Ave energy: 713 ft/lbs
The mag primers were slightly more consistent but for some reason gave slower velocities.
These numbers are consistant with the results I got using 9.7gr PP with 165gr Montana Gold in new starline cases CCI 350 LMP and COL 1.256 ±.02. I was getting 1260ft/sec with a 3.78 standard Glock barrel with no pressure signs. Have not taken to 10.0gr . I just bought a G20 and would expect to get 50 to 75 ft/ with the longer barrel that would be about 1310. Good enough for me. I have had good results with PP. I can still drop 1.0 gr with reloads and @ 8.7 saw 1100ft/sec.
In addition to testing some reloads, I shot some Double Tap and "factory" reloads available for purchase from Vandalia Range and Armory.
First, I will admit that during the first string of shots over the chrono, I hit one of the sun shades. Luckily it was with the .45 since the 10mm might have sent the whole chrono into orbit . Even though the back sensor looked damaged, the chrono still seemed to work, I just got more errors than I usually did before. I tried 10 shots over it for each different load, but I rarely got all ten loads to read. Tonight it's supposed to be rainy so I'll try to rig something up to make it work better.
All of these were tested with a Glock 21SF, Lone Wolf 6" slide, and KKM 45-10mm conversion barrel and 24lb recoil spring. USE EXTREME CAUTION as these loads might not be safe in an unmodified gun with a chamber that is not as tight!
Anyway, on to the results.
All data collected on 4/1/10, 76ºF, elevation 1,115ft.
I did some messing with Blue Dot and 180gr FMJ's flirting a little over max and trying with Large Pistol and Mag primers.
180gr FMJ, 11.0gr Blue Dot Powder, Large Pistol Primer (max load listed on Alliant's website, tested at 1295fps)
8/10 loads measured
Min velocity: 1274fps
Max velocity: 1355fps
Average velocity: 1314fps
Average energy: 690ft/lbs
Std Dev: 23.99
Same load, Mag primers.
6/10 loads measured
Min velocity: 1327fps
Max velocity: 1403fps
Average velocity: 1359fps
Average energy: 738ft/lbs
Std Dev: 30.16
Due to the results with a bigger powder charge, I think this one might have been a little more consistent if I would have had a reading for all of the shots on the chrono. Obviously the mag primers did push more velocity out of the load with Blue Dot.
Now I bumped up the powder charge to 11.4gr (this is OVER MAX)
Large pistol primer;
7/10 loads measured
Min velocity: 1327fps
Max velocity: 1376fps
Average velocity: 1356fps
Average energy: 735ft/lbs
Std Dev: 20.72
Now, with mag primers:
8/10 loads measured
Min velocity: 1363fps
Max velocity: 1405fps
Average velocity: 1381fps
Average energy: 762ft/lbs
Std Dev: 14.13
This load was the most consistent out of all of them. Next test I will need to work up to this load with the XTPs.
Before I got my loader set up I bought some of the range ammo they sell at Vandalia Range and Armory. I was pleasantly surprised, as they were only $17 a box of 50 and they felt as if they were loaded pretty powerfully. They are loaded with 180gr flat point FMJ, and mixed cases (most of them Federal).
I did manage to get all 10 loads to measure on the chrono.
Min velocity: 1255fps
Max velocity: 1329fps
Average velocity: 1292fps
Average energy: 677ft/lbs
Std Dev: 22.36
Double Tap. Advertised 1350fps out of a stock Glock 20 bbl (4.4"). Doesn't quite measure up, even with my 6" bbl.
Link to ammo. I did kill a deer with this load last year, it went in the neck and nearly penetrated lengthwise (stopped somewhere in the intestines).
Loads measured: 9/10
Min velocity: 1279fps
Max velocity: 1376fps
Average velocity: 1309fps
Average energy: 685ft/lbs
Std Dev: 29.46
Next, 180gr XTPs. These were my answer to the Double Tap rounds, intended on using for deer or other similar sized game animals (or blowing **** up). I worked some of these up to the powder charge before, so I know they were safe in my gun but this is OVER MAX for the powder charge.
Brass: Starline New
Bullet: Hornady 180gr. XTP
Primer: CCI Large Pistol
Powder: 9.6gr of Alliant Power Pistol
Loads measured: 8/10
Min velocity: 1398fps
Max velocity: 1505fps (this one was 50+ more than all the rest of them, I'm not sure what happened with it, but WOW, that's 905ft/lbs!)
Average velocity: 1433fps
Average energy: 820ft/lbs
Std Dev: 35.89
This one was more consistent than the data suggests, as the 1505fps load was the only one that was anywhere near that high. If you remove that one from the data pool, the Std Dev is inline with the others. (1422fps average velocity, 22.55 Std Dev) I did have some problems keeping the OAL consistent with the XTP bullets (I believe due to the seating stem not matching well with the bullet profile) so that one could have been shorter and I missed it for some reason.
I found the addition of Federal Magnum Large Pistol primers with Power Pistol powder lowered the average velocity, but did make the loads more consistent. Same load with the mag primers:
Min velocity: 1374fps
Max velocity: 1437fps
Average velocity: 1399fps
Average energy: 782ft/lbs
Std Dev: 21.74
1400fps is scorching for a 180gr bullet. *****DO NOT try to replicate this without starting LOW and working your way up.****
Magnum primers will bump up the velocity for Blue Dot not necessarily for Power Pistol. Both powders kick ***, though. Next test I will load up some XTPs with Blue Dot and compare to two, and hopefully not hit my damn chronograph again.
I intended on doing accuracy on paper as well as chronograph data but it was windy and all my stuff was blowing around. I was getting frustrated enough keeping everything from blowing away while walking around the yard with the cast on my leg so I scrapped those plans at the start of my shooting.
Been there. It is a bit embarassing. My buddy asked me to repeat the velocity of my previous shot as I was getting ready to send another. The old saying that you tend to shoot where you look... well I hit the sun shade rod right where it attaches to the chrony housing; about 1.5" northeast of the velocity read out. It burned lead residue into the housing in about a 2" circle. It shook the guts of the chrony so hard that it dislodged all of the internals. The sunshade rod now has a large horeshoe shaped bend in it. I had to take it all apart and re-assemble. Works fine now.
After re-assembly, I did some test strings inside the house by firing rubber bands over it. You may be interested to know that a blue elastic band from a bunch of broccoli fired from a full stretch has a 5 shot ave velocity of 69 fps.
You may consider disassembling and seeing if anything needs to be reset into place or cleaned up. Mine had bits of plastic and lead junk that had become dislodged and were floating around.
1400 fps on a 180 gr projectile is moving! I found it interesting that the std dev with BD and mag primers actually opened up relative to the standard primers. You are right that it could be a function of sample size with the misreads.
Thank you for posting that data.
Thanks... I know I'm not the first and I know I won't be the last. I will make sure to set it up a little closer to my rest next time.
Did some more today in preparation of deer season ***still with the same chronograph
Same Glock 21SF, 6" conversion bbl
Both loads tested were with 180gr XTP, Federal Large Pistol Magnum primers, loaded to 1.257 OAL, in new Starline brass.
9.6gr Power Pistol, 10 loads measured;
Min: 1,336fps Max: 1,412 Avg: 1,380fps Std Dev: 19.42
11.4gr Blue Dot, 10 loads measured;
Min: 1,387fps Max: 1,448fps Avg: 1,412fps Std Dev: 16.75
Groups (stepped off at about 15 yards, so probably 45-50 feet). Rested off of the tailgate of my truck.
target: (can't get picture to imbed for some reason)
Power Pistol on top (10 shots), Blue Dot loads on bottom (15 shots). During the middle of the Blue Dot group I pulled the two on the right, then tried to "fix myself" and pulled the one to the left. I walked away for a few minutes then settled down and came back and finished it. The first two were the ones at 12 oclock that were touching
if i was wanting to use this laod, can anyone suggest a start load?
XDMikey, What bullet are you going to be using as everything is relevent! Note the quoted GPE427 is using a 4.6" & 6" barrels in the testing. Those plated bullets can have very thin plating and if driven beyond what it can take it will sheer off, others complain of keyholing. The only plated bullets I've used were Speer Gold Dots.
I used the following data for a 200 XTP seated to 1.260" CCI 300 Remington Nickel brass...Use with caution as it is slightly above the recomended data for 200FMJ's and the XTP's are longer in total length.
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29
These functioned well and preformed well from these guns set up with Wolff 22lb Recoil spring in the S&W and Wolff 21lb springs and noncaptured rod w the G-29.
I just received my 10mm 180 grain truncated cone flat point hard cast bullets.
Ill be using a KKM 4.75" barrel with a g29 and 23# spring.
Im looking for an accurate load for target/hunting without going close to nuclear. Any BlueDot recipies that you'all have been using or advice on hard cast loads with Blue Dot? I'm new to cast reloading. Am I alright just using FMJ info minus 10% and working my way up?
CCI 300 primers
180 grain TC HardCast
P.S. I have 800X for hot loads, Just looking for fun/accurate loads at the range or smaller game hunting with BD.
I just wanted to post these two loads here, as they are my favorites so far with Blue Dot.
Perfect Target Load:
-CCI 300 primers
-Blue Dot 10.3-10.4gr
-180gr FMJ (I used local Magnus 180gr FMJ-TC)
-Exceptional accuracy, nice Goldilocks load, not too hot, not too cold.
My carry load:
-Once-fired brass (new would be better)
-CCI 300 primers
-Blue Dot 12.9gr
-Hornady 155gr XTP
-Awesome load, incredibly accurate, nice and hot, serious BD flash and bang. Maybe not the best for nighttime use, but I'd sure run like hell if I saw a 3 foot fireball coming at me!!!
Please be careful with these loads, especially the second one. Start lower, be safe.
Back in the day when I carried a 4" 686, I loved those fireballs, bigger the better, I figured the same thing, if I missed the BG would die of heart failure...until I fired one in the night, I couldn't see for a week.
Nowadays...low flash is one of my top criteria for a carry load.
I don't think they are really that bad. The first time I tested that load it was actually getting dark so I saved a few to shoot when it was really dark. It was impressive, but not too bad on my eyes. I was still able to reacquire my target. And truthfully, I did that test way out in the woods, where it's REALLY dark, so that's worst case scenario. If I ever have to use my pistol in the dark, it will likely be around a city where there will be some kind of lights making the situation somewhat better. This is also my backpacking bear defense pistol, but for that I will DEFINITELY carry some low flash loads. Some of the darkest nights I've ever experienced were on backpacking trips (Grand Tetons, Wind River Range, etc.).
So far I'm reading that 9.0 grains of BD puts 180 grain Hard Cast at about 1050 fps and is a great plinking/target load that isn't rough on brass. I know I could go alot higher but My original post was for a target/hunting load. Ill be experimenting with higher velocities using 800x.
Not Blue Dot...
I've used a Missouri Bullet or similar 180 TC with 9.0 grains of AA7, it's my standard "plinking load" for a 10mm, 1911 Commander, I've had good luck with it and used it many years ago with a 1006. I'm guessing it's running about 950-1000 fps or so. You can take up from there if you want, that load is inexpensive, easy on brass, gun and me.
Without re-reading the posts...I'm assuming you have an after market barrel for shooting lead in your Glock?
Yes, Its a 4.75" KKM I'm using with a g29.
Alliant powder chart only shows a speer GDHP with 11 grains BD as max load at 1295fps so naturally my thought process was to go 10% less to start at which is 10.1 grains and 10% less for lead which would put me at 9.09 grains.
(Unless Hard cast doesn't need to be de-rated 10%? I'm not sure if that is just for soft lead. Any feed back would be appreciated.):embarassed:
My Lyman 49th has...
Two different Blue Dot loads for a 175 grain cast bullet.
9.3 -- 10.4 grains @ 1.253" OAL 1175 -1275 fps.
9.0 -- 10.4 grains @ 1.260" OAL 1100-1245 fps.
Slight differences in the two bullets and I do believe hardcast due to the published velocity.
Hope that helps.