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Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by MCNETT, Aug 25, 2003.
Use this thread to post your Alliant powder data.
I had a chance to get out and chrono some loads that I had worked up. These were all 1.26"OAL Win LP primers and Starline cases. Temp 90F elev 5000ft.
13.5gr 2400 180FP - 1109fps
7.3gr Power Pistol 220FP - 1028fps
11.0gr 800X 165 Sierra JHP - 1380fps
13.5gr 2400 180FP - 1240fps
7.4gr PP 220 west coast FP - 1141fps
7.3gr PP 220 Precision FP - 1162fps
9.2gr PP 180 Lead FP - 1366fps
13.0gr STEEL 200WFN lead - 1274fps
13.5gr STEEL 200WFN lead - 1255fps?
12.0gr STEEL 220 Precision - 933fps
12.5gr STEEL 220 Precision - 1141fps
12.0gr 2400 200XTP - 1106fps
12.5gr 2400 200XTP - 1147fps (compressed HP)
13.5gr 2400 200XTP - 1194fps (closed HP)
13.5gr 2400 200WFN - 1242fps
14.5gr 2400 200WFN - 1304fps
11.0gr 2400 220 Precision - 1072fps
11.5gr 2400 220 Precision - 1106fps (deformed)
13.5gr 2400 180FP - 1051fps
7.3gr PP 220 West Coast - 1007fps
11.0gr 800X 165 Sierra JHP - 1366fps
This is slightly tainted data. The primers were Win non-magnum. I usually use CCI 350 MAG primers. I believe especially with the STEEL loads that it produced inconsistent ignition causing sad chrono readings. This test drives the point home," IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE SLOW POWDERS IN THE 10MM, USE MAGNUM PRIMERS, PLEASE!" I had a lot of fun shooting these, but I am definitely using CCI 350's next time.
All handloads are 1.26"OAL CCI LP MAG primers avg. 5 shots use caution PLEASE! From my stock G29.
180 West Coast FP 9.2 PP - 1152fps
180XTP 11.0 Blue Dot - 1167fps
180 GDHP 11.8 BD - 1257fps
135 Nosler JHP 10.5 PP - 1297fps
220 West Coast FP 10.0 BD - 1162fps (hot)
PLEASE drop all of my loads by 2.0gr and work up in .5gr increments until pressure signs raise their ugly head, then back off by .5gr! Hope this helps.
Here are a couple of the results from the 10"T/C:
AVG 10 shots Starline cases, CCI 350, 1.26" OAL
200XTP 11.2gr BD - 1566fps 38,600psi
1/8/01 - Went to the range with my first ever loadings of the 220gr. precision bullet in my 10mm. For starters, my G20C is equipped with 22lb spring and a 6" KKM bbl. I had no loading info, so this load started as a WAG (wild ass guess)! COL was 1.26in, CCI Large Pistol Magnum primers, once fired Starline brass, and Precision 220gr bullets over 10.0gr of Blue Dot.
5 shot avg. was 1192fps!
No signs of overpressure, 25F cold, cold, cold, elev 2500ft.
This load was shot through my aftermarket bbl, please don't fire this load through your stock bbl. I will work up a load with AA#9 and I will try to improve on this Blue Dot load as well.
Using just a little bit more Blue Dot under my 220's and shooting indoors @ 72f vs. sub 20 degree weather made a HUGE difference. I lengthened the OAL to 1.27in.
Here are my results:
5 shots 6"KKM BBL
AVG=1345fps and 884 ft/lbs!!
No sign of over pressure, but you had better bell out the inside deep or the case will bulge enough to impede reliability in the KKM. The stock bbl. feeds them with or without the bulge.
Here's the wrap-up on the chrono testing the 220's 6"KKM:
Precision 220gr 8.8gr Blue Dot
5 shot avg. 1187fps nice manageable load
G20C stock bbl:986fps
9.9 Blue Dot 220 Precision 1261fps
same load w/ West Coast 220: 1233fps
6.9 Power Pistol/ Precision 220: 1068fps
same w/ West Coast: 1042fps
All velocities are an avg. of 5 shots over my chrono. The temp was 30f and elevation was 5800ft. OAL was 1.26".
10.0gr Blue Dot WC220 - 1285fps 6"KKM
10.0gr Blue Dot PB220 - 1318fps 6"KKM
10.0gr Blue Dot PB220 - 1219fps G20
10.0gr Blue Dot WC220 - 1115fps G29 65F
10.5gr STEEL PB220 - 1226fps 6"KKM
11.0gr STEEL PB220 - 1257fps 6"KKM
11.5gr STEEL PB220 - 1291fps 6"KKM
12.0gr STEEL PB220 - 1301fps 6"KKM
7.3gr Power Pistol WC220 - 1007fps G29 85F ??? faster than G20C
7.3gr Power Pistol WC220 - 997fps G20C 85F
7.3gr Power Pistol WC220 - 1149fps 6"KKM 85F
7.3gr Power Pistol PB220 - 1200fps 6"KMM 85
8.0gr Power Pistol PB220 - 1149fps G20 WARM 55F
8.0gr Power Pistol PB220 - 1101fps G29 70F
11.0gr 2400 PB220 - 1072fps 6"KKM 85F
11.5gr 2400 PB220 - 1101fps 6"KKM 85F
Hope this helps all of you that are working up loads with 220gr bullets!
1.26" OAL CCI 350 primers 45F 5000ft elev:
155gr GDHP 11.8gr Blue Dot - 1264fps (G20C)
155gr GDHP 9.9gr Power Pistol - 1420fps (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 12.8gr Blue Dot - 1451fps (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 14.7gr 2400 - 1356fp (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 12.8gr Blue Dot - 1305fps (G20C)
155gr GDHP 11.5gr STEEL - 1183fps (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 12.5gr STEEL - 1394fps (6"KKM)
155gr.GDHP 13.0gr STEEL - 1425fps (6"KKM)
Here are some 155gr loads that I have use din the past.
www.alliantpowder.com does not list Bullseye data for 10mm light weight bullets.
Lyman 5" barrel data shows: 135gr JHP, 7.3gr @ 1335f/s.
150gr JHP, 7.0gr @ 1263f/s.
(Alliant data shows 40SW 4" barrel, 135gr JHP, 7.6gr @ 1350f/s. Bullseye is doing its thing in 10mm in far less than 5".)
I was surprized that actual tests in my stock G-29 with used Winchester brass produced Glocksmiles at 9.2gr for 135gr JHP, and 9.0gr for 150gr JHP.
Dropping back a few tenths grains & new brass for safety, I had some of my most accurate 10mm loadings. (Heavier bullets are very accurate with Bullseye also.)
At about 600 fLbs, PF 190, +P+ load is adequate for most uses. Clearly not a maximum power powder.
Meters great, great sight reaquisition characteristics, a bit smokey, no flash or great blast, with standard or 21# recoil spring the brass drops at your feet.
According to the Alliant Tec Rep (1.800.276.9337), Power Pistol is a powder derived from the Bullseye formula. This ball shape powder meters well but the slower burn rate causes ignition problems. The longer the barrel the more accurate the load (smaller velocity standard deviation numbers), due to a more complete burn.
Grip reduction: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13213462#post13213462
Training & Targets: www.glockfaq.com www.sportshooter.com www.mytargets.com www.tackdriver.com Be sure to explore the links!
www.alliantpowder.com does not list 10mm loads, but 40SW data for 4" barrels is listed and appropriate as starting loads for 10mm.
Sierra and Lyman do list a few 10mm 5" barrel loads:
135gr JHP, 7.2gr Red Dot, 1375 f/s, 567 fLbs, PF 186
150gr JHP, 6.5gr " " , 1243 f/s, 514 fLbs, PF 187
170gr JHP, 6.0gr " " , 1100+f/s
180gr JHP, 6.0gr " " , 1080 f/s. 466 fLbs, PF 189
Red Dot is a flake powder which does not meter well. With a great effort, quite accurate loads are possible. Bullseye is a probably a better choice if you are looking for a fast burn rate powder.
The other mentioned powders are derived from Red Dot, per the Alliant Tec Rep.
Promo is the same burn rate as Red Dot, but a little denser. Less charge weight is required.
E3 has the same burn rate as Red Dot as well. Alliant has no plans to market it as a pistol powder, but the Tec Rep states he has already loaded it using the Red Dot published data in all bullet weights of the 9mm Lugar.
For those of you using Beartooth WFN 200gr. bullets:
With each load, you should drop 1gr and work up:
Starline brass CCI 350primers 1.26"OAL 35F 5000ft
11.0gr. BD - 1336fps 6"KKM
12.0gr. STEEL - 1380fps 6"KKM
12.5gr STEEL - 1396fps 6"KKM
13.0gr.STEEL - 1410fps 6"KKM
11.5gr STEEL - 1232fps G20
11.0gr. BD - 1246fps G20
edited to remove irrelevancy...;9
Well, I've only loaded a grand total of 71 cartigdes. But FWIW, here's what I loaded, and I think it worked out well. I had no access to a chrony, so I don't know the fps, only that it worked and didn't blow up my gun.
180gr GS BJHP - 7.2gr Unique WLP primer 1.26" OAL
I wont post any more loads unless I actually have some Numbers that are worthy of posting, but, since this is the first Unique data on this thread, I think it has it's place.
If not, just delete this post. I think I'll try a load of 7.4 next. I'm starting to get the hang of this.;f
The following data is from a les baer 10mm heavyweight monolith. All rounds are 155 grn Remington JHP with cci300 primers. 1.250 COL.
ALSO 20 shot strings!
11.2 grns blue dot, winchester brass 1321+, 1203-, 118e, 1245m, 36s
11.2 grns blue dot, winchester brass 1303+, 1155-, 148e, 1243m, 36s
11.2 grns blue dot, elo brass 1269+, 1154-, 115e, 1210m, 35s
11.2 grns blue dot, federal brass 1287+, 1188-, 099e, 1241m, 27s
11.2 grns blue dot, remington brass, 1352+, 1162-, 190e, 1251m, 38s
So the next time someone says don't sort your brass, remember there are some variations.
first of all: Thank you for the work you are and have been doing and especially for sharing your knowledge with us.
For reloading I will use
- a Glock 20
- Winchester brass,
- cci 350 primers,
- Speer 180gr GDHP and Speer 200gr FMJ bullets and
- Blue Dot powder (I would have preferred IMR 800X but that is impossible to get in Germany )
The official suggestions from the Alliant-manual are
for 180gr: maximum of 10,4 gr
for 200gr: maximum of 8,9 gr.
As you posted above, you tried 11,8 gr instead of 10,4 and the gun didn`t blow up. So my question: What is the "hottest" yet still safe load you can recommend?
And why do people prefer Blue Dot over Power Pistol?
At a quick glance I didn't see anybody posting results for Unique. So here goes:
Stock G20 except 22# Wolff recoil spring
180 gr Winchester FMJ's
Winchester nickel cases
CCI Standard & Magnum Primers
8.0 grains Unique
Avg: 1165 (fps)
Std Dev: 22 (fps)
Avg: 1173 (fps)
Std Dev: 13 (fps)
In both sample primers did not appear pushed out or flattened. These are respectable velocities for this particular powder and charge amount. I think this powder
may match Blue Dot in the sub or 1200 (fps) neighborhood if just bumped up a little. The magnum primers seem to offer consistent velocities.
Overall, I am impressed and do think it is a winner.
Some new data today.
Glock 20 5" KKM barrel
22# Wolff recoil spring
180 gr Win FMJ
11.5 gr Blue Dot
Std Dev: 8
Cases look fine thanks to the tight chamber of the KKM barrel.
P.S. Hey Mike, I'm woking up to that 1300 fps mark!
Some more data with good 'ol Unique
Glock 20 5" KKM barrel
22# Wolff recoil spring
180 gr Win FMJ
8.3 gr Unique
Std Dev: 12
Again, good numbers and a pretty small spread.
I'm confused; my Winchester Large Pistol primers are labeled "For standard or magnum pistol loads". Can you clarify, please?
Winchester says that this is a "multip-purpose primer" I prefer to shoot dedicated Magnum primers.
Power Pistol chrono results:
I'm surprised more people don't use Power Pistol over Blue Dot.
More goes farther and there is slightly less flash. The flash is still there, but just not as bad.
Power Pistol / Zero 180gr FMJ / Starline brass / CCI 350 / OAL 1.250"
Glock 29 KKM Barrel
5 shot ave:
There's was a decent jump for just 0.3grs. except between 9.3 and 9.6. I'm guessing that the magnum primers must have helped the numbers get up so high. No huge signs of over pressure that I could see. Primers were a little flat, but not too bad. I'd stick with between 9.0 and 9.3 as my max since 9.6 didn't yield much more.