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Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mrs. VR, Apr 12, 2012.
I am almost there with you.
That Trayvon kid was no perfect little angel but lets face facts.
1. Zimmerman is not a cop and should leave police work to the police unless he is being pursued or attacked.
2. He was told by a police dispatcher to stay in his car but he didn't listen.
3. If he was being approached while sitting in a car he could have just drove away.
I carry a gun and have a permit but that's more the reason I avoid confrontation. I would have drove off if he starting approaching me because I know where it could go fast. I feel really bad for Zimmerman because he could have avoiding all this by listening to dispatcher and drive away. Police were already called so Zimmerman did all he could do as a civilian. My opinion is that a combination of a cocky kid & a guy wanting to be a cop got out of hand.
No one but him knows what really happen that night. Based on what I know you know... to defend our self is one thing a neighborhood watch guy should not have gone after the boy and let the police handle it.
That said I stand in the middle of the road on this one because I don't know exactly what happen that night.
I do feel bad for the family with their loss and for Z man if it was truly self defense. I hope the justice system produces a fair outcome and people can get over it.
Zimmerman tells police on the phone that Martin ran. The girl that was talking with Martin says that Martin told her that he thought he lost the person that was following him.
Zimmerman says he was at the other end of the walkway that runs between the streets from his vehicle when he ends the phone call with police. The house where Martin is staying is at the other end of the row of houses on the street where Zimmerman finishes his phone call with police.
If Zimmerman was at the other end of the walkway between streets from his vehicle, then he would cross the intersecting walkway between houses where the shooting was while returning to his vehicle. Martin should have had plenty of time to get to house where he was staying if he was trying to lose somebody.
From both Zimmerman and the girl that was talking with Martin on the phone, Martin spoke to Zimmerman first. The words aren't exactly the same but that seems like a minor point. Zimmerman says Martin showed up behind him as he was returning to his vehicle. Zimmerman says Martin says, "You got a problem?" The girls says Martin says, "Why are you following me?" Either way, the shooting is near where the two walkways intersect at the opposite end of the rows of houses from where Martin was staying. Zimmerman says he went (or turned) towards Martin, on the intersecting walkway, to "respond" to Martin after Martin says something to him.
"The words aren't exactly the same but that seems like a minor point."
You raise a good point. Yet, it isn't valuable.
My words aren't exactly the same but, that is a minor point.
Not everybody recalls everything exactly the same. Zimmerman had just been punched in the nose and involved in a shooting. The girl was talking on the phone and asked about it much later.
FL Dept of Juvenile Justice has already released that he had no juvenile record.
Yes, but the judge would have to allow it into evidence, and I doubt that he would unless the prosecuter or his witness brought it up.
I would like to see a source for that.
Look up any Home Owner documents, residents have a right to be on the common property, so Mr. Zimmerman does not need "permission" to walk around, or drive around that community all darn night if he wanted to. Second, he was a member of his citizens crime patrol, which his Homeowners Association gives permission to be on the property, and to look for criminal activity. Period!
The lowest person entering a Homeowners Association is a guest or whatever trayvon was, which is the lowest rank? of person who enters a H.O. They tell you were you can park, etc., and you and the unit owner are responsible for your conduct, and you are also subject to all the rules and regulations.
Parts of the Home Owner Assn. property is private property, the same as your house or back yard, if you want to dress like a criminal in a neighborhood that is criminally plagued, if you want to go trespassing about in a gated community, then expect to be challenged. No matter what the provocation If you criminally assault the lawfully appointed crime watch, then expect something bad to happen to you.
This crime patrol was set up because the police were unable or unwilling to stem the rash of crimes occuring lately, and Crime Watch volunteers are trying to protect their community, and usually the frail and defenseless, who are overwhelmingly victimized.
Once people stop caring about their community, you wind up with dump like Miami, where hoodlums even attack people on the interstates, and former Gov. Graham had to order the Highway Patrol to arrest lowlifes preying on motorists.
Deep breaths, dude...
Fact 1 is a fact but it's irrelevant, Zimmerman wasn't acting like a cop. He was acting like a concerned resident.
Fact 2 is not a fact.
Good point, Baldy. We have a COPS program in our neighborhood and one thing they stress is to know what's going on in your neighborhood. The police have no obligation to protect our lives and property, but we do. Keeping a close eye on strangers is not a bad thing.
He was acting like a concerned resident when he called the police. When he gave chase, he crossed the line into playing a cop.
Seriously, take it back a notch or two - no report has said Z chased T. And it is in question if Z was returning to his car when the conflict happened.
I agree about being a concerned citizen but the courts see things differently and that's what I'm referring to.
Giving chase does not fall under "follow from a distance"
A witness is someone who observes without getting involved. If your actions cause the person you are observing to try and run away from you and then you decide to run after them, you are no longer a witness, you are a participant.
You are right, it is not a report, it is right there in the 911 call. Zimmerman is breathing heavy and admits to the dispatcher than he is "following" Martin. Running after someone who is running away is giving chase.
You got it wrong - Z called local police non emergency number - not 911- , said he was following, police said no need to do that.
This is where the questions I mentioned above come into play.
Z screwed up by getting out of his car and following Martin .... IMHO.
He didn't see Martin crawling out of the back window of someone's home ...... He didn't see Martin carrying a (possibly stolen) TV or other things at night...... He saw someone who looked suspicious and that person was Martin, wearing a hoodie, and not a resident of the neighborhood.
Based on this he left his car, got into an altercation (don't really know who started it) ....... was getting the krap beaten out of him ...... drew his gun and fired. The guy in the hoodie is dead.
George screwed up ....... This is just my opinion ........ I wasn't there....... like most of the posters on this thread.
quick glocktalk summary
Z is in jail for second degree murder - we know
M is dead - we know
THEN nobody on this whole board knows jack !!!! rumors and watching the news aint giving no facts and are mostly all hearsay/ basically folks should drop it until the trial and evidence is shown ,. guilt or innocence and drop it .
its been beat more then a red headed step child