Debate After Religion

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Police Marksman, May 30, 2017.

  1. Police Marksman

    Police Marksman

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  2. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    I consider myself lucky that I was raised in such a way that I never believed in or had faith about..... any of it.

    If people would stop indoctrinating children and pushing this crap into their heads while they're still soft we could be rid of religion in a generation or two.
     

  3. Handy

    Handy

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    It's a silly argument.
     
  4. Paul7

    Paul7

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    Just like if you don't teach a kid about math, they won't understand it.

    Fixed it for you.
     
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  5. hogfish

    hogfish Señor Member

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    Religion isn't going away.

    While it's true that it has been abused, keep in mind that if it wasn't for religion (at least afa Christianity goes), many would be okay with all things we consider wrong, as demonstrated by many on this forum.
     
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  6. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    While this is a popular argument, the cause and effect relationship you propose is far from certain. If anything, indications are that things happened the other way around. Our ability to form and cooperate in larger groups was one of our main evolutionary survival adaptations. How else can a species hope to keep its young alive through such a long adolescent phase without the concerted cooperation of large group of adults? We evolved empathy for each other in order to improve the odds of our own reproductive success and being intelligent creatures these natural tendencies became codified in religions. We evolved morality out of our shared need to work together and religion came along as a rationalization for what we were already hardwired to do.
     
  7. Handy

    Handy

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    Morality isn't a product of religion. The least theistic societies are also the least violent.
     
  8. ziggy2525

    ziggy2525

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    Great explanation.
     
  9. Handy

    Handy

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    Religion does not exist to enforce morality, propose the nature of the universe or provide the justification for subjugating other human beings. Religion is a way of dealing with questions that can't be answered anywhere else, and is unlikely to ever go away fully because of those questions. And I'm okay with that.
     
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  10. JBnTX

    JBnTX

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    Then where does morality come from?

    Is there one moral standard we all must follow,
    or does each person determine for himself what is moral or immoral?

    If it comes from within each person, then why do we have bad people?
    If we disagree, then who determines who's right? The strongest?

    If you "just know that murder is wrong", how do you know that?
    Why doesn't everyone know that if it comes from within each person?

    I believe there's one moral standard, established by God.

    .
     
  11. Dave514

    Dave514

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    And it's subject to change over and over and over and over, lol.
     
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  12. ziggy2525

    ziggy2525

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    That's just your opinion of how it should be. There's quite a few religious people (Christian, Muslim, etc.) that wouldn't agree with you.

    An eye for an eye. Stoning people to death for adultery. Burning people to death for witchcraft. In the Old Testament, death was the penalty for several moral offenses.
     
  13. Handy

    Handy

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    Let's assume that there is only one God and one true religion. I'm willing to bet you believe that.

    Where did all those other religious moralities come from?
     
  14. Handy

    Handy

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    There was a time when there was no sensible line between the natural and supernatural, religious law and secular law. And that is reasonable.

    What I'm pointing out is that the secular world has taken away some of religion's burden of explaining everything, but the kernel of mystery - the afterlife - isn't going anywhere. It is not only beyond science's ability to comment on, but it is something we appeared to be wired for, like music.
     
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  15. JBnTX

    JBnTX

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    Most all the religions of the world agree on morality standards such as murder, lying and stealing.

    God only gave one religion to this planet.
    ALL the others came from man. Most openly admit that in their teachings.
     
  16. Handy

    Handy

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    So you answered your own question: Man creates morality, regardless of the influence of the correct God or not.

    Morality is just the rules for cooperative living in a society. Basic morality is about limiting violence and acknowledging property rights, and is pretty much universal across all cultures and times.
     
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  17. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Exactly! You don't start teaching it till they're equipped to handle it!

    You don't teach Algebra to a preschool class and you shouldn't teach mythology to the same group.

    Glad we agree :thumbsup:


    Didn't need fixed.
     
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  18. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    If only all religious people saw it this way, but for many it is exactly those things.
     
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  19. Handy

    Handy

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    People that vote often fail to understand the issues, people that say they support science often have little understanding of scientific theory and religious people often don't understand their own scripture.

    When everyone is dumb, how can you pick one group of idiots as any more egregious than the rest?
     
  20. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    From the society yo you live in, the way you were raised and your own empathy and intelligence.



    Each person is free to hold their own moral standard within the overarching standard of the society they are a part of.




    Once again, empathy, intelligence and an understanding of reciprocity should give the average person all they need.

    Bad people will be bad people no matter what. Christians are the largest group in prison. Most crime is committed by Christians, or at least those who profess the faith.




    It's in the social contract. Once again, it doesn't take much intelligence to understand that murder is bad because society condemns it and that, as a group, this benefits everyone because it protects the group.

    If you need an instruction book to understand why murder and other atrocities are objectively wrong you should be in a cage.


    Everyone does. Some choose to ignore it.


    Your God doesn't exist. You follow a moral standard created by men. Just like everyone else.
     
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