Advice Needed (Which AR to purchase)

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by serve_and_protect, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. serve_and_protect

    serve_and_protect

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    Thanks vitalibertas!

    So you think I should go for the cold hammer forged barrel in a SHTF rifle, rather than the nitrided barrel?

    I just want the barrel that is more rugged and durable.
     
  2. PattonWasRight

    PattonWasRight

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    Yep. It's still super sonic at that distance. I know for certain because I hear the crack of the sound of them flying over head while working the target pits.

    So thats 80 grains hitting you at super sonic speed. Yeah that works. Takes a skilled rifle man to hit with accuracy thou

    Maybe, but with no disrespect, you're splitting hairs. Chrome is an older method nitriding newer to achieve same goal. To help you over think things more, chrome barrels are considered a bit less accurate because the chrome layer isnt as precise a surface
     
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  3. serve_and_protect

    serve_and_protect

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    Thanks for your reply, PattonWasRight!

    Cold hammer forged with chrome is less accurate???


    Ok, now I am confused.

    I thought the cold hammer forged barrel was highly desirable.

    Should I go with the cheaper nitrided barrel then?

    I just want the barrel that is most accurate, durable and rugged.

    Which barrel do y'all think is best for a SHTF rifle:

    1. The nitrided chrome moly vanadium barrel that comes with this rifle:

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...lassic-ar-15-rifle-13-5-m-lok-rail-black.html


    Or.........

    2. The cold hammer forged barrel that comes with this rifle:

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ht-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-w-mbus-sight-set2.html
     
  4. vitalibertas

    vitalibertas

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    Again, you’re wayyyyy overthinking this.

    Everything is a compromise. Chrome lining impacts accuracy because it is applied to the inner barrel and depending on who’s doing it, can impact accuracy of the barrel due to uneven application of the lining throughout the barrel length.

    Nitriding is not a lining but a metal treatment so the broached rifling isn’t impacted other than to harden the steel itself.

    All things being equal, any lining is going to impact accuracy. FN chrome lining is going to impact accuracy minimally. We’re not talking about going from 2 MOA groups to 4 MOA in comparison to a Nitrided barrel.

    The FN barrel will get you the most longevity because of the chrome lining. You’ll get at least double the barrel life, possibly much more. The accuracy impact should be negligible, especially when talking about combat accuracy. I doubt you’ll notice any difference in combat accuracy. Shooting at a bench rest with powered optics is where you’re going to notice some difference. But that’s also not what a carbine config is all about either.

    You can’t have it all. Every configuration is a trade off. If you want peak accuracy under sustained fire at maximum distances, you’ll need an 18-20” heavy barrel that’s not chrome lined. It’s going to weigh a couple pounds more and be much less maneuverable. I’ve had a Colt 20” HBAR. It was my first AR and that was the most popular config 30 years ago. No thanks. I haven’t ever purchased a 20” AR since.

    If you want something that is going to significantly outlast other configs, the only way to get that is via chrome lining and the trade off will be some amount of accuracy.

    However, as I said before, the average shooter will not wear out a nitrided barrel for many years. Unless you’re shooting thousands of rounds a year because it’s your profession and your life depends on it, chrome lining is not necessary.

    Again, you’re going to spend much more money on ammo than your rifle costs many times over before you wear your nitrided barrel out.

    Chrome lining is the military spec because of the experience in Vietnam. The soldiers did not adequately clean their rifles. Lack of maintenance and lubrication, and the high humidity of the jungle made the M-16 a jam-o-matic. Chrome lining is much more forgiving of that and makes barrel corrosion practically impossible.

    If you want slightly more accuracy and lower cost, go with the nitride. If you want much longer barrel longevity and less rigorous maintenance, go with the mil-spec FN CHF CL barrel. There’s a reason why it’s mil-spec.

    Seriously, stop looking for perfection. Pick what suits your budget and answers the question above. You’re chasing your tail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  5. PattonWasRight

    PattonWasRight

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    Nicely explained.
     
  6. serve_and_protect

    serve_and_protect

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    Thanks for the detailed explanation, vitalibertas!!

    This was a great post!

    VERY well explained!!

    Now I understand the difference between a nitrided barrel and a CHF barrel.

    I wish I could give you a bunch of likes for this post!

    Thanks again for your patience!
     
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  7. serve_and_protect

    serve_and_protect

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    Thanks also to everyone who commented on this thread! I appreciate yall's advice!
     
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  8. Roguer

    Roguer

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  9. mac66

    mac66 Huge Member Millennium Member

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  10. PattonWasRight

    PattonWasRight

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    OP ... Curious why you are committed to PSA. $500 buys you a bolted down AR from Ruger or Smith Wesson that are warrantied for life. PSA is fine, but they're short on the reputation others have. Not slamming then, but others are a safer long term bet
     
  11. jrs93accord

    jrs93accord

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    Well said. The OP is way over thinking this.
     
  12. vitalibertas

    vitalibertas

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    While there’s absolutely nothing wrong with your suggestions, PSA offers a lifetime warranty and configs up the wazoo along with chrome lined barrels at a price you can’t get anywhere else. I’ve been using them for at least 8 years and can’t complain.
     
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  13. jk_226

    jk_226

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    I'll throw in that if you have the cash to buy enough ammo to burn out any decent barrel, you've got the cash to replace it.
     
  14. serve_and_protect

    serve_and_protect

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    Hi PattonWasRight,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I'm not necessarily "committed" to PSA, but I have bought stuff from them in the past, and been satisfied at the quality of their product.

    I'm a cautious buyer (especially when it comes to expensive stuff), so I tend to stick with what I know when possible.

    I also like certain features that the PSA rifles have, such as the 1:7 barrel twist, and 5.56 NATO chamber.

    A lot of other companies' barrels have a 1:9 twist, and sometimes a .223 chamber.
     
  15. Wayward Son

    Wayward Son

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    Palmetto makes good stuff. Their nitride barrel will last for more rounds than the average shooter will want to put through it.
    If you want to spend a little more, their stainless barrels are excellent.
     
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  16. serve_and_protect

    serve_and_protect

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    Hi Wayward Son, thanks for your reply!

    Is the stainless barrel the cold hammer forged one?
     
  17. jrs93accord

    jrs93accord

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    Most stainless steel barrels you find are not CHF.
    Stainless is softer than chromoly. Hammer forged stainless needs to be 410 in order to hold up to the forging process. 416 and 416R do not fare well in hammer forging. PSA stainless steel barrels are 416R.

    Stainless is great for applications where accuracy matters a lot and you don't mind shorter barrel life. However on rifles where you want long service life and can live with 1moa to 2moa performance then cold hammer forged chrome lined is the barrel for you.
     
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  18. Dynactus

    Dynactus

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    A friend has a Stag Arms AR for sale. It looks to be an entry level model. Have to admit I'm tempted to buy it. What's the reputation of ARs made by Stag Arms?
     
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  19. jrs93accord

    jrs93accord

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    Stag Arms have been of pretty decent quality. Not anywhere near top of the line, but somewhere in the middle. I would place them right about where the S&W, Del-Ton, and a few others reside.
     
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  20. BossGodfrey

    BossGodfrey

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    I have built 9 kits from PSA in the past year, 3 16 inch and the rest 10.5. All have been outstanding, the 300 Blk out with over 1400 rds through it included. I have built all for less than 400, except one with 9in Mlok rail that was 425.00 Tactical Machining is 15 minutes from my house, I pick up the lowers for 49.00 in 10 minutes. Their EPT triggers are great and nothing has been out of spec. Being an AR armorer I know what to look for and have all the tools to check every part. DD, LMT Colt RRA, BCA, I've had just about all of them over the years, and now I build with PSA, it's hard to beat the value Palmetto Lower KITS.jpg 2 AR.jpg Shorty AR.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020