Advice needed for a home defense shotgun

Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by Gasoil4ever, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Gasoil4ever

    Gasoil4ever Glock Frog

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    Hi all,

    I am looking for some advice on a home defense shotgun.

    Let me explain my situation i am a French expat living in central Africa where I might one day need to defend my family (especially knowing we are going through a presidential election next year).

    I have been an active IPSC shooter while I was in France so I am familiar with hand guns but shotguns are forbidden in France so I know little about them and a handgun where I live now is just a no no issue.

    I need a shotgun that is 100% reliable, holds enough rounds, will go for a Magpul stock and I am left handed.

    Not to say I like the tacticool look.

    What to go for ?

    590 or 870 ?

    Bead sight or XS ghost ring ?

    18,5 or 20" barrel ?

    Which spare parts should I have ?

    What accessories should I get ?

    Many thanks in advance for your input.
     
  2. MooMooBoo

    MooMooBoo

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    Smaller shotgun the better for close quarters so id say 18.5
     

  3. Glockworks

    Glockworks Thank God for Prez Trump and VP Pence!

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  4. Gasoil4ever

    Gasoil4ever Glock Frog

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    Thanks for the advice. There are plenty of cold ones around here ;-)

    Unfortunately the Keltec will qualify locally as a war weapon... Therefore forbidden for importation while a traditional shotgun qualifies as a hunting gun...
     
  5. pipedreams

    pipedreams "Knowledge Speaks - Wisdom Listens,"

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  6. Glockworks

    Glockworks Thank God for Prez Trump and VP Pence!

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    Sorry about that. Makes me happy to be here in the US, where we still are somewhat free. I, like Gasoil4ever, have owned a Winchester 1300 and I loved it too. Also a Mossberg 500 was good to me too. Note though I am by no means a shotgun expert. Good luck!
     
  7. releo 37

    releo 37

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    I would go with the 20 inch barrel because if you put a magazine extension it will carry more rounds. I personally like the XS sights and as far as the choice between a Mossberg or Remington that is a personal choice the one difference to consider is the safety on the 590 is up on the receiver instead of the trigger guard on the Remington. Have you looked at a Benelli Nova?
     
  8. GWG19

    GWG19

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    Benelli
    The Nova or Super Nova for a pump. M2 for a semi auto.
    The 870 is a good shotgun, so are the Mosberg and Winchester shotguns.
    The Benelli is dead buts reliable. Yes they cost more, but what is a reliable weapon worth to you?
    I have a Super Black Eagle that has functioned in weather that froze up other shotguns.
    My Benelli 3 Gun M2 has been proven in the stressful situation of shooting on the clock.
    Do some reading about shotguns (Semiauto) in the Dove fields of Argentina. Talk about a torture test.


    Lastly get some training and learn to fight with the shotgun. Learn to load it under stress, learn to shoot it from cover.
     
  9. Gunsby_Blazen

    Gunsby_Blazen

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    I am in the minority, i prefer beads to ghost rings or rifle sights.
    The 870 and the 590 are great pump shotguns.
    The Supernova from Benelli is a good one as well. I am in the market for a Supernova because they are quicker to load due to their larger loading gate (hole?). Parts are harder to come by. The Supernova is popular in certain classes of competition due to how fast they are to reload. A lot of these have been modified to accept more shells, but are good out of the box as well. Competitive shooters mostly use sporting shotguns and typically have a rib with fiber optic front sight. they are typically longer than defensive shotguns, i prefer this type of sight picture.
    The defensive model Supernovas have iron sights (ghost ring or traditional rifle sights are available on the Nova/Supernova just like the 870 and 590).

    The Remington 870s have the most parts available but i think Remington has dropped the ball as of late and their quality control has suffered. I wont buy a current production Remington anything. Their express series of shotguns are pretty rough. This are the most popular pump shotgun made.

    The Mossberg has some benefits to its design such as tang mounted safety. The safety is right on the back/top of the shotgun and extremely easy for you to engage and disengage with your thumb. The 590 and 590A1 are heavy duty and reliable shotguns. I think they are a little better than the current production Remingtons.

    are there any limitations on magazine capacity where you live? If not there are a couple different companies that make extensions. I prefer Nordic Components and the XRail monotube which is a single piece larger magazine tube. This is the way to go for the Supernova in my opinion as it is more robust than a bolt on extension. Depending on how long of an extension you put on your shotgun, if you choose this route, you may have to add a barrel clamp and it can change point of impact depending on how you do it... The Monotube does not require a clamp.

    Or you can get a shotgun with a large capacity to begin with....
    ...again depending on the regulations where you live.

    as for pumps, i would go with the Mossberg 590/590A1, the Benelli Nova/Supernova, or the Remington 870.
    All three of these shotguns are simple, dont have a lot of parts, and are easy to maintain.
    Wilson Combat has their Scattergun Technologies if you want an extra-reliable Remington 870 but it will cost you. Vang Comp (also here in the States) also offers extra-reliable Remington 870 shotguns.

    Bead sights are good for shotshell
    Rifle sights are better for slugs. You can shoot shot shell accurately using rifle sights as well. I prefer a bead because its faster.
    Sights vs bead is a personal preference type of thing. You may like rifle or ghost ring sights if you are more accustom to shooting rifles.

    For a no-nonsense hard use pump shotgun, I would take a gander at the Mossberg 590A1 (USMC) model. The 590A1 models have a metal trigger guard and a heavy walled (thick) barrel. They are built to take abuse. That being said they are heavier and not as quick to point. The 590 (non A1 models) do not have the metal trigger guard but i have never heard of the polymer guards ever breaking.... Mossberg 500 shotguns have a different magazine cap than the 590 so you cant add magazine tube extensions on them.

    there are a lot of options out there....
    shoot me a holler if I got you more indecisive ...
     
  10. Gunsby_Blazen

    Gunsby_Blazen

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    oh one more thing
    accessories,
    get a flashlight mounted to it...
    there are lots of choices. what type of batteries do you have locally available to you? Shurefire and Streamlight are good flashlight companies. I have had good and bad luck with both. I have busted a few shurefires. I never busted one of their polymer models but they say not to mount them on guns. I mount them anyway and they work for me, at least on my AR. I dont know how it would handle on a shotgun. Shurefire makes a few integrated light fore ends. Magpul makes a fore end that has spots to mount things to it.... I like the magpul fore end as it protects my finger tips from getting smashed when i pump the gun... It still can happen though (they make them for the 870 and500/590 models).

    there are lots of different ways to mount them depending on the model you choose and what furniture you put on it....

    I have a Traid Tactical Shotshell stock pack that I really like. It has a zipper pocket and then some elastic loops on the outside to hold shells. I like it because you will always have some shells on hand. It is like their precision rifle cheek riser/pads with the zipper pack on the side.
    It holds 5 shells on the outside and you can stash about 7 shells inside the pocket (i keep a set of foam earplugs in there as well). I dont like bandoleer slings as they get in the way. This keeps things solid and out of the way. I also like it because you dont have to add a shell saddle to the receiver. If you ever want to put an optic such as a red dot/reflex sight on it (i dont think you would) then you can make sure you get proper cheekweld as the pouch allows you to adjust that with riser strips. It is a heavy duty pouch.
     
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  11. Gasoil4ever

    Gasoil4ever Glock Frog

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    Thanks for the advices !
     
  12. Gunsby_Blazen

    Gunsby_Blazen

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    one more flashlight to consider is the Elzetta
    really heavy duty lights
    I completely forgot about them for a moment. The next light that i am going to get will be an Elzetta.
    They are a little heavy but i think they are better than the Surefire and Streamlights. All well be great!

    let us know what you decide on. Talking about this kind of stuff is always fun.
    Which shotgun are you leaning towards?
     
  13. Gasoil4ever

    Gasoil4ever Glock Frog

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    I am keener on the 870. But you make me rethink about the mossberg.

    I need a shotgun for which parts are easy to find.

    But regarding the 590, a video from Nutnfancy on YouTube gives me doubts :



    Doesn't make me want to rely on that gun. Even though Mossberg can not sell as many, have such a rugged and reliable reputation and sell crap.

    My problem is that getting a gun is a long and complicated process (get the paperwork, order in France, go and get it, bring it back here). I can't flip it or send it back if I have any issue.
     
  14. Gunsby_Blazen

    Gunsby_Blazen

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    I have a mossberg 500 that has never had a part break in over 30 years. It was my fathers so i have no idea how old it is...
    that being said, they dont make em like they used to.

    I hear ya. The truth of the matter is, no matter what gun you get, you risk the chances of it not being reliable. I have had guns that are supposed to be rock solid that have given me problems. I have also had guns that are supposed to have problems give me none at all.
    There is always a risk.

    Whatever you get, make sure you get an extra firing pin, extra extractor, and an extra set of springs. I am not sure what breaks on a shotgun as I have never had that problem. They make aftermarket followers for the magazine tube which can increase reliability. I am not sure that is necessary though. Aftermarket followers usually help when you put on a magazine extension. If i knew i was going to be away from everything and only had one gun then i would be sure to have those parts. I did have a firing pin break on an old stevens shotgun but that is not one that i would recommend (they dont even make it anymore, it had one action bar as well. A new ones have dual action bars and are much more reliable)

    I usually dont pay attention to Nutnfancy but hearing about one having problems is enough to give me pause. That being said, i have heard about every gun that i have owned having a problem.
    The Benelli Nova/Supernova can have problems when dirt gets behind the trigger causing them to have some of failure to fire problems. It has affected a few people but i am not concerned with it in regards to my desire to purchase one.
    That being said, i dont face the same problems that you do.

    I would still say that the 870, 590, and the Supernovas are the most reliable pump shotguns out there.
    Probably in that order... keep in mind that Remington's current production guns are a little more rough than they were a decade ago. They are still good. To me, they have a rough feel when you pump them. They dont feel as slick as they should. Replacement parts should be easy to come by for the Remington as well as the Mossberg.
    All of these guns are good enough for hard use.

    870s come in three flavors: Express, Wingmaster, and Police
    They are all about the same thing. The Wingmaster is the cadillac and has a metal trigger guard and is supposed to a smoother shotgun with more attention to detail when they build it. I havent seen a new Wingmaster to comment. The 1970s wingmasters were amazing. The Express has rougher parts and a polymer trigger guard (just as good as the metal one). The Police models (870P) have metal trigger guards and maybe a couple other heavier duty parts such as springs (i am not sure, not up to snuff on this).
    Bottom Line, they all are about the same. You dont want a Wingmaster for what you plan on using it for, i dont think. The Wingmaster and Police shotguns are assembled with higher attention to detail (thats what Remington says anyway) where the parts are inspected prior to assembly. The Police models also have heavier springs to ensure they feed, ignite primers, lift the shell into the chamber, and so forth.
    This is what Remington says in their press release... The Express models are pretty much the same thing but dont have the different springs nor are the shotguns assembled in the Law Enforcement assembly area (again, according to Remington)
    I believe what they say but it may or may not mean something to you.

    So there is some more info if you are looking into the Remington 870. I dont know that if since it says Police and is marketed to law enforcement/military that it would cause problems for you. You can buy the heavier springs after the fact if you want.

    I am still thinking all of them will be reliable. They are pump shotguns and thats what they are made for.
    if you can get an American aftermarket (custom shop) shotgun then the Wilson Combat Scattergun Technologies might be worth taking a gander at. They are redone new Remington 870s. They cost both an arm and a leg for a pump gun though.... I dont know if they are worth the extra money but the US Government uses them with the border patrol (from what Wilson Combat says). They have extra power magazine springs in them....

    (sorry about being long winded, i am a historian and i end up talking a lot.. writing a lot)
     
  15. Gasoil4ever

    Gasoil4ever Glock Frog

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    Thanks for your input. It is very detailed and interesting.
     
  16. Decguns

    Decguns

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    I've had a Mossberg 590 since there was a 590. Reliable. The 500 series is the defacto combat shotgun used by military and police all over the world. Spare parts, upgrades, etc... are available everywhere.

    You would probably want one with the ghost ring sights. The old brass bead on the barrel leaves a lot to be desired when firing slugs. 500 or 590, really can't go wrong.
     
  17. MajorD

    MajorD

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    If you are able rather than messing around with spare parts buy two shotguns- one tricked out with the light and such and a plain Jane spare to equip another family member or sub for your primary if it breaks. Especially in developing countries I suspect getting parts gunsmith support etc is non existent
     
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  18. Gunsby_Blazen

    Gunsby_Blazen

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    I am guess the gun might have to be registered. It might be taxed...
    there could even be a limit to how many guns you can own.

    if not, this is a good idea.
    if he is restricted to just one gun for now, spare parts are the thing to have.
    I am not sure you would need a gunsmith to repair a pump shotgun unless something major breaks.
    They are pretty serviceable by the average guy.

    Good advice!
     
  19. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Don't sweat the issues Nutnfancy was having with his shotgun. All manufacturers have their problems including Remington who routinely sells guns with rough chambers that won't extract fired shells, extractors that break off in the receiver and have to be sent back to the factory for repair, and has dimples formed in the front of the magazine tube which requires some gunsmithing to fit a mag extension. I have two Mossberg shotguns that have been flawless and if you had a problem like Nutnfancy the worst case is you order a new triggergroup from Brownells for like $80.

    The only pare parts I would own for either a Mossberg or a Remington are a spare magazine spring, a spare main hammer spring, a spare ejector for the Mossberg. You can solve a lot of spare parts concerns with both guns by simply buying a spare complete trigger assembly which accounts for the bulk of the moving parts and springs in a pump shotgun and in both cases requires only the removal of the receiver pin(s) to change out. If the gun goes down you simply push out the pins and swap out the trigger assemblies and you are back in business. Don't mess with removeable chokes. They add very little practical utility to a combat shotgun and are another mechanical thing that can go wrong. They get loose with shooting and need constant tightening and if you mess up and forget you can damage your barrel. Not necessary and one more thing that can go wrong.
     
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  20. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    Benelli M2 with extended magazine tube. You have to examine how your are going to use it for HD. At least to me, a shotgun is a "stay put" firearm. If that is the case, then the barrel length is much less of an issue. You could go 24" or 26" if you aren't moving around in close quarters.

    If you are moving around in close quarters, even an 18" barrel length can be cumbersome. I don't know about the laws in your country, but if you want to shotgun to be mobile in CQ, go for a shorter than 18" if legal. (USA-LE/SWAT entry shotguns are typically quite a bit shorter than 18"; although the shotgun is falling out of favor for this application with SBR AR types being the preferred replacement.) Your magazine tube can extend beyond your barrel a few inches, but you do have loss of capacity with a SBS/18".

    Oh, and you don't really need a sling unless you also have a handgun. The sling allows you retain your shotgun while you transition to a handgun; or if you need your hands for other purposes - but it is much slower to deploy from a "slung" position, than "ready" or a handgun in a holster. The disadvantage of a sling? You'd be surprised what it can "catch on" moving around or be in this the way.

    Why an autoloader rather than a pump? Reliability. This isn't the conventional wisdom. I've seen many more stoppages on pump shotguns than Benelli autoloaders. Most of the pump stoppages are user induced under stress, but stoppages none-the-less. Autoloaders don't know there is stress in involved when it comes time to cycle the action.