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ACP vs GAP

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by biscotrip, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. ADK_40GLKr

    ADK_40GLKr Adirondacker with a Glock

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    TF - With a 7 round legal limit in any NY mag, my G38 has all the firepower the state allows. ( I just have to be careful I don't get caught before racking that 8th round into the chamber! :) OOOPS, felonious activity!)

    I know, administrative reload, THEN insert a mag with 7 rounds.:supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  2. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

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    I will have to avoid NY in the future.
     

  3. Dom Pastore

    Dom Pastore dpast32

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    I guess that some folks just don't understand WHY the .45 GAP caliber & Glock 37 combination was originally conceived & introduced. It was produced to allow L/E agencies to issue a duty pistol in the same relative size as the G17 / G22 series, BUT with the "relative" power of the .45 ACP. ( I say relative, because the .45 GAP runs on par with a standard velocity, non +P .45 ACP, but the GAP's pressure levels equate to a .45 ACP+P. )
    So, in a nutshell, it works out like this; An agency wishing to standardize on .45 caliber for duty use, can now do so without a great many of the complaints from their rank & file regarding a too large / too thick grip frame issue weapon. lF the agency and or end user doesn't have an issue with the weapon's frame size, then the .45 GAP caliber makes no sense at all, just go with one of .45 ACP Glock models & never look back. BUT, as we noted, time & time again, the current crop law enforcement applicants tend to come in all shapes & sizes, with all types of hand sizes. If we can just remember why the GAP was initially created, perhaps we will see it for what is was intended to be.

    Best, dpast32 ( dpast32@aol.com )
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  4. gfree

    gfree

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    Very good thread. Civility in discussing these 2 .45's Propose for sticky.
     
  5. RichardB

    RichardB Silver Member

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    Pastore, Thanks for the refresher for the folks who seem to forget the posts they read more than 12 months in the past.
     
  6. Dom Pastore

    Dom Pastore dpast32

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    THANK YOU Gentlemen for your very kind comments, they are much appreciated. I have always had trouble understanding why some people just couldn't accept the .45 GAP for what it was, & still is, a viable alternative to a specific problem. The key to the whole GAP question is the word "specific", as in pertaining to a specific issue. The issue in question was; "How can we find a duty pistol that will fire a .45 caliber projectile, with ballistics similar to the .45 ACP, but housed in platform that will carry a decent number of rounds, contained within a pistol that the "average" sized person will find comfortable". Well, I may be somewhat biased, but I think the .45 GAP & Glock 37, 38, & 39 models solved that issue just fine !! Personally, I just love my G38. I do kind of wish it had the slim .45 slide, as in the new G30S, but it is what it is. Now, if Glock would just come out with a Practical / Tactical model in .45 GAP, with the slim G30S type slide, that would be a dream come true.

    Best, dpast32
     
  7. hunter won

    hunter won

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    Glock will most likely develop a 30s slide for the G.A.P. since the company is looking at keeping people interested in that caliber.
    The G39 is a great sub compact pistol. I have no problem finding ammo, wish more companies would make the .45 G.A.P.
     
  8. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Yeah, they just don't want to let it rest in piece.

    Nobody will ever make another GAP pistol other than Glock, in my opinion. Springfield and Para both did and they dropped them quickly. Its a failed campaign.
     
  9. brisk21

    brisk21

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    .45 GAP is stupid. If you can't handle a .45 ACP size frame, then you can't handle a .45 anyways. Low capacity, hard to find, and expensive ammo. Glocks ego is so big they had to have their own caliber. Solving a problem that didn't exist. Plus, if you really want a little more power in a 9mm size gun, they invented the .40 for that 25 years ago. The GAP will never catch on.
     
  10. RichardB

    RichardB Silver Member

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    "The 45 Short introduced by Glock seems to be a pretty good idea. If the powder space is there we might as well use it and profit by resulting compactness. I do not intend to rush out and buy a 45 GAP, since I have a couple of very serviceable full−size 45s now. "

    Jeff Cooper - Commentaries Volume 13, Number 5.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  11. attrapereves

    attrapereves

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    My wife can handle a full sized 1911, but cannot handle my non-SF Glock 21. That thing is a brick, even for me. The 45GAP, at the time, was supposed to be a 45 caliber pistol in a smaller frame.

    With the gen4 and SF frames, there is less of a difference.
     
  12. brisk21

    brisk21

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    Far less. Plus, go handle an M&P 45 or an HK45. Those guns show there is no need for the GAP. I just feel that if a .45 is too much, a 9mm is the perfect option.
     
  13. engineer151515

    engineer151515

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    Your post is so full of misinformation, it is amusing. :rofl::rofl:

    BTW - a 1911 frame is even slimmer than a G37. Per your logic I guess 1911 shooters should give up on handling 45ACP too.
     
  14. engineer151515

    engineer151515

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    When there's a need for a more compact .45 round, GAP will fill it. You say its a failed campaign. I suspect, it is ahead of it's time. We'll see.

    Current designs accommodate the dead air space in standard load .45ACP without consequence. Except, of course, when you get into subcompact 1911 territory. ACP is still a bit troublesome there and can really use the shorter bullet.
     
  15. attrapereves

    attrapereves

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    Those pistols also hold 3 rounds fewer than the fatter Glock 21.

    To turn around your argument, why would I buy an M&P45 or HK45 when I could buy a thinner Glock 37 that holds the same amount of ammo.

    The M&P and HK definitely aren't as fat as the Glock 21, but the 9mm and 45GAP (even though I've never held one) Glocks will feel better than the M&P or HK.

    I don't own any GAP pistols, but I've always said that the GAP is the round that 45ACP should have been. Unfortunately modern powder was not out when the ACP was released.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  16. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

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    The .45ACP was invented in a completely different era, long before Glocks were invented.
     
  17. RichardB

    RichardB Silver Member

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    Yes, and modern powders mean they need less powder: ergo a shorter cartridge, fitting in a smaller gun, the 45GAP.
     
  18. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

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    Glock will one day drop the .45 GAP.
     
  19. attrapereves

    attrapereves

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    I would assume that they will as well. It might end up like the 357SIG M&Ps. Only available to law enforcement.
     
  20. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    No they seat in the case the same depth as a .45 ACP..

    The case is just shorter.

    In .45 caliber handguns case capacity is not an issue. Most ACP loads leave a ton of unused case capacity and in my brief experience loading the GAP with 230 grain pills I still had excess case capacity. (You can also use .45 ACP dies to load GAP ammo.)


    The GAP matches the performance of an ACP in every bullet weight. As mentioned, its rationale for development lie in the fact that you build a Glock with a G17 frame to work with the GAP and a ACP requires the much bigger G21 frame. The slides on the Glock GAP pistols are also very slightly wider to deal with the larger barrel diameter etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015