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Accurate Arms Data

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by bdc, Oct 20, 2003.

  1. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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    I saw sort of the same thing using the very long Barnes 100% copper 140 grain bullets in my testing. These were the same length as the 200gr XTP's

    TAC-XP FB 140 grain pn# 40005 10mm/40S&W0.400”
    12.6 grains of AA#9 (had to adjust, powder shovingthe bullet back out 1.270")(Totally compressed @ 12.6 gr.) @ 1181 fps,Primer was totally flattened to the edges. This was about the same results with Hornady's give or take a few fps.
     
  2. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012

  3. Andrew Wiggin

    Andrew Wiggin

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    180 gr XTP, AA#7, COL 2.255"
    Pistol was 4.5" barreled EAA Witness.
    No significant pressure signs were noted.


    11.0
    ____

    1162
    1223
    1265
    1195

    avg: 1211

    11.2
    ____

    1203
    1198
    1134
    1197

    avg: 1183

    11.4
    ____

    1190
    1205
    1228
    1222
    1212

    avg: 1211

    11.6
    ____

    1232
    1213
    1212
    1226
    1241

    avg: 1225

    11.8
    ____

    1231
    1260
    1252
    1254
    1255
    1245

    avg: 1250

    12.0
    ____

    1259
    1270
    1282
    1271
    1266
    1284

    avg: 1272


    I want to point out that this exceeds the loads recommended by Accurate but is within the bounds of Hornady's 7th edition. According to their data, Accurate did not test this combination at the full 37.5K psi, whereas a Hornady tech advised me that they do go up to the full SAAMI spec pressure.

    It seems to me that this powder is a lot "happier" at or near max. 11.0 and 11.4 yielded the same avg velocity and all the lower powder charges had some pretty wide spreads in velocity. The three heavier charges were much more consistent and showed a much flatter progression in velocity. I'm tempted to go faster but according to the Hornady tech I ought to be at or near the full 37.5K psi.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  4. whenmonkeysfly

    whenmonkeysfly CLM

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    Thanks for the data and research with Hornady Andrew.
     
  5. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Hi guys, my first contribution to this forum. I didn't see much data for 165 GDHP so I thought I'd share my results from some testing this week.

    Stock G20
    50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
    165 gr Gold Dot Hollow point
    AA #9
    Starline brass
    1.255 OAL
    CCI 350

    15.0 = 1268 fps avg
    1242, 1297, 1266, 1274, 1261

    15.2 = 1286 fps avg
    1308, 1267, 1291, 1280, 1287

    15.4 = 1310 fps avg
    1307, 1309, 1318, 1307

    15.6 = 1311 fps avg
    1322, 1319, 1308, 1297

    All of these were extremely accurate and I didn't see any signs of over pressure in any of the brass, which was brand new. I decided to load up 200 of the 15.6 grs as my SD load for now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  6. atyszka

    atyszka

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    2nd load that I played with this weekend. I wasn't overly impressed with the velocity, but the accuracy was excellent. At the 17.5 gr, there didn't look like there was any room left in the case so that's where I stopped, which was also the max load listed in the AA book I have. No pressure signs on the brass and the primers look like they always do, slightly flattened, which seems to be consistent for me with AA #9 regardless of the charge. The AA book says the 17.5 gr load is only 29,000 (going from memory here) so the primer flattening can only be a result of the powder getting into the primer pocket as some smarter folks than I have theorized.

    Stock G20
    50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
    135 gr Nosler HP
    AA #9
    Starline brass, new
    1.255 OAL
    CCI 350

    16.5 gr = 1314 fps avg
    1295, 1332, 1315, 1316, 1312

    16.8 gr = 1325 fps avg
    1341, 1323, 1321, 1306, 1336

    17.2 gr = 1335 fps avg
    1354, 1328, 1330, 1320, 1347

    17.5 gr = 1373 fps avg
    1329, 1410, 1379, 1359, 1389
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  7. attrapereves

    attrapereves

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    In regards to your 165gr data... My carry load is 15.2gr of AA#9 with a 165gr Gold Dot. I usually see about 1320fps out of the load with an OAL of 1.250". I wonder if .005" would make that much of a difference in velocity? Maybe the colder temp could affect things too?

    About the 135gr data... Since the 135gr bullets are pretty light, I've determined that AA#7 or even AA#5 will make a better powder for it. I'm still working on a 1500-1600fps load :)
     
  8. atyszka

    atyszka

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    I always seem to get slightly slower velocities than many others, could be my barrel, my chrony, or the weather. ~30 fps isn't insignificant, maybe I'll try shortening the OAL and see if that makes up for the difference.

    And I hear ya (and others) on the 135gr with #9. It's just too slow for that light bullet. I have an older Accurate reloading guide (15 or so years) and it has #9 listed for the 135 Nosler, the new one does not. I started another thread looking for suggestions on the low velocity and tried some #7 and 800X, both with decent results, though no where near the velocities you're working on.
     
  9. attrapereves

    attrapereves

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    I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7
     
  10. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    800X and Longshot will both get 1600fps, advantage going to 800X
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  11. atyszka

    atyszka

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  12. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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    Yep I put them back together and shot them for the velocity info as well. The 135 grain was a supprise;
    Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR800X 11.8 grains
    Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 135 Gr. Nosler JHP 1738 fps : Diameter 0.4325" @ the light "Smile" primer GONE, popped out!, case didn't eject as tested from my S&W1006.
     
  13. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

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    I've posted some data for this bullet/powder combo in this forum, but never posted it here in the Accurate sticky.

    I've actually done two separate workups with the WFNGC bullet.

    Double Tap and Beartooth both make this bullet. In my opinion the Beartooth is a better bullet. They have more consistent weight, and the casting is of better quality. Either, though, are effective. Mike McNett of DT told me that theirs was an identical copy of the BT (that they used to load in their ammo). There are some subtle differences, but they are quite similar.

    The first workups were with the DT bullet. The Accurate powder was from the now-obsolete Belgian made lots. The BT loads were with lots that are now made in the USA.

    A quick point about load data:

    Basically, there is no load data for this bullet type. There is load data for cast loads, but these bullets are a different animal.

    When Speer used to make the 200 gr TMJ available for components, there was data from Speer and Accurate for the 200 gr TMJ and Accurate no. 9. Speer's max was 14.0 gr and Accurate's was 13.5. Speer called for a CCI 350, and Accurate used a CCI 300. These bullets are a fairly low friction design, so that was a loose frame of reference for load workups.

    Components:

    Brass: new Starline
    Primer: CCI 350
    COL: 1.26"
    Powder: Accurate no. 9
    Bullet: Wide Flat Nosed Gas Checked Hardcast (WFNGC) 200 gr. (sized .401")
    Gun: Gen 3 Glock 20. Stock barrel and RSA

    I captured chrony data for 2 of the relays for the DT loads. Temp 90F:

    13.3 grains: ave velocity = 1168 fps
    13.8 grains: ave velocity = 1205 fps (this was tested a second time with similar results)

    Beartooth loads tested at 42F with the newer A9 lots:

    12.7 grains: ave velocity = 1148 fps
    13.0 grains: ave velocity = 1174 fps
    13.3 grains: ave velocity = 1180 fps
    13.6 grains: ave velocity = 1208 fps
    13.8 grains: ave velocity = 1232 fps

    No symptoms of excessive pressures, and no leading in the G20 barrel. Groups are acceptable. Not great. I consider this bullet to be great for the wilderness where you might need penetration. I don't see this as a long range target bullet.

    If you choose to attempt these loads, please reduce to 12.5 fps or lower and workup in 2 tenths of a grain increments. As stated earlier, this load data is not supported by published load data. What works in my gun might not work in yours.

    A tech at Accurate told me that the newer lots are lest temp sensitive. This is yet another data point to substantiate that. Note that the temperature of the tests from the older lots was 90F. The later tests were in the 40s yet had faster velocities. I observed notable temp sensitivity with the older lots.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  14. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    From everything I've read and seen (admittedly, all were on forums, NOT firsthand).... it seems like AA9 is a great powder, both powerful, accurate and pretty versatile, HOWEVER, it shines MOST BRIGHTLY when using heavy and/or high-drag bullets in long barrels.

    Examples.... 180 and 200gr XTP's are both high drag and decently heavy bullets that work very well with AA9 for FULL VELOCITY loads, the nod going to 200gr. The 200gr BTB / WFNGC bullets are a very good match with AA9 but you will start to see REAL GAINS in sheer velocity when you add 1) high-drag (ie, XTP design), 2) heavier bullet (ie, 220-230gr) or 3) longer barrels or even 4) high case neck tension or crimp.... all of these due to the slow burn characteristics of this powder.

    Anyone with firsthand knowledge feel free to chime in on my summary.

    Can't wait to get into this pound of AA9 and start playing with 6" velocities of hunting bullets....
     
  15. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

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    Good take Nick. Although 1425 fps out of a 4.6" barrel with a 155 using book data is pretty good too. Not sure how to top that and stay "on book." Best results are with new brass that I re-size so that the ID of the case gives a tight fit for the bullet. Lots of neck tension gives good results.

    Scanning my load log (spreadsheet), there are numerous mid single-digit SDs on velocities with 180 and 200 grainers. Out of 32 unique workup data points for 180 and 200 gr bullets, half of them have SDs of 10 or less. That translates to outstanding groups. On paper, it is hard to beat a 180 or 200 gr XTP and A9. Blue Dot is right there, but nothing else is.

    Now, this is not a crucial for service pistols, but it does speak to your take that this powder does well when you let it build a head of steam. I think that is also why some guys don't get any velocities with A9.


    Have fun messing around with your new powder. You have to really work to get enough of it in a case in order to get into trouble. The big downside to A9 is that those big ol' charge weights suck down a pound of powder pretty quickly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  16. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    As usual, nail on the head, Tater.

    I'm okay with using almost double the powder IF I can get a 200gr XTP over 1250 with a book load and IF it groups extremely well. For hunting and full power loads I usually use new or almost new cases so neck tension won't be an issue.

    Can't wait to start playing. :)
     
  17. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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    Yep, I agree it takes a little attention to the details (case fit/bullet fit) with them working at the upper edge to get the most bang for given bullets. At the top of this page, I was stuffing as much as I could get inside using the Barnes 140 TAC-XP, to the point where it stopped pushing the bullet back out...

    I still have some of my older AA#7 (early 90's) and some of the AA#9 that has the micro-spheres to use up on some projects. But for now they are there for testing and learning as needed....
     
  18. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    This is encouraging to me, as the results from G20er (post #30 here I believe) indicated that he only got 1120-1160fps from the same 13g charge and only to 1200fps going up to 14.3gr.

    If I can get 1200fps with 13g I'll be happy as a clam.
     
  19. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    I've got my first ever AA9 loads loaded up to test tomorrow and, while I have no way to chrony them yet, I'll test for accuracy and pressure signs, if any. I have some Rainier 180gr PHPs loaded up over 13.5gr AA9 / CCI300.

    We shall see!
     
  20. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    Hey Taterhead....

    Do you happen to know when, approximately, Accurate switched their AA9 from the "old" to the "new" (small balls over to flattened balls) or - when they switched their data due to he newer powder being a bit faster and less temp sensitive?

    Thanks in advance ....