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Accidental Discharge

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by bass one, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. bass one

    bass one

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    In the news today. Two ADs. Does this really happen? What type of gun do you think this is? Care to explain the technicalities on how this could happen? Thanks.

    Editor's Note: Published on page A23 of the September 3, 2004 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer


    HOMICIDE investigators in Manila never thought they would be investigating the death of one of their own.

    But they did just that Wednesday when SPO3 Solomon Bataller died after his service pistol fell and went off accidentally.

    The incident happened in front of his 10-year-old son, who was unharmed.

    The 49-year-old Bataller, a policeman for 24 years who had several awards to his name for being a veteran crime investigator, was declared dead on arrival at the Ospital ng Sampaloc.

    He suffered two gunshot wounds.

    Investigator SPO2 Diomedes Labarda said in his report that Bataller was cleaning his 9 mm pistol inside his house on Felina Street, Sampaloc, Wednesday afternoon when the accident took place.

    Bataller was watching television with his son, when the pistol slipped from his hands and fell on the floor, police said.

    Twice shot

    The gun reportedly went off twice, hitting him in the chin and in the chest.

    His son then called for help.

    Members of the Western Police District said Battaler was a great loss to the police force and his death was a shock to most of them.

    "Hindi namin akalain na iimbestigahan namin ang pagkamatay ng kasamahan namin (We never thought we would be investigating a colleague's death)," said SPO2 Edison Bertoldo, who worked in the morning shift with Bataller.

    Colleagues told the Inquirer that Bataller used to be in the Marines before he joined the police force.

    In his stint as a policeman, Bataller worked as an investigator and was named three times as the best investigator of the year. He was also a director of the Manila's Finest Brotherhood Association, Inc.

    WPD spokesperson Chief Insp. Gerry Agunod said that since Bataller died while still in active service, his family would be receiving full death benefits for members of the Philippine National Police.
     
  2. glck17

    glck17

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    2 AD's? ;P I supposed the FA involved is a Beretta. Maybe jerrytrini may impart some of his knowledge re this FA.
     

  3. bulm540

    bulm540

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    Cleaning a loaded gun is not a good idea with a mag is stupid. Sorry to be judgemental but what was he thinking.
     
  4. 9MX

    9MX Rei!

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    thats why i like glock;)
     
  5. vega

    vega

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    I fully agree with you. I don't have CCW and everytime I come home and get my pistol from the safe I check and re-check my pistol if there is one in the tube even if I know that there was none when I put it there in the morning.

    My condolences to the family of the fallen cop.

    bass one - I think your post explained itself on how it happened, that is, if you're asking how an AD could happpen. I am not familiar with Beretta and I don't know if this have a firing pin safety. But shooting twice...

    Yes, perhaps Jerry can explain how this should happen to a Beretta if his service pistol is indeed one.

    vega
     
  6. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    Let me get this straight...

    'Dropping' the Beretta resulting in a double AD?
    Both AD's scoring hits?
    Victim was cleaning his loaded Beretta?

    Suuuuure.
    ;Q ;Q ;Q
    Is it just me, or is something not adding up here?
     
  7. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

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    Nangangamoy isda. ;f
     
  8. jasonub

    jasonub

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    with a beretta impossible. I had a 92fs when lethal weapon and die hard was the in thing

    it has a firing pin block, a manual safety that rotates the connection between the firing pin and the hammer and decocks the hammer.

    for a beretta to fire, like the hk, glock, sig and most modern firearms the trigger should be pulled.
     
  9. bass one

    bass one

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    It is a given that cleaning a loaded gun is stupid...no offense Darwin ;f. We can safely assume that the mag is inserted for this to happen as there can't be 2 bullets in the chamber. Maybe the guy is playing with his FA and not really cleaning it. Maybe they just gave that excuse, who knows what really happened. My question is why a double tap? And can this happen to other or any FA? I'm asking this because this is the first time I've heard or read of a double AD. Does it have anything to do with the lightness of the trigger?

    Just read the others' posts. I Just wanna give the benefit of the doubt ;)
     
  10. 9MX

    9MX Rei!

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    yup SPO3 was cleaning his loaded gun when it ADd, 2nd shot was when it dropped on the floor;Q
     
  11. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    IIRC, the most common 9mm service pistol in the PNP service
    is the Beretta 92DS. This is a DAO model, featuring an ambi manual-safety/decocker and a firing-pin block safety. The manual safety/decocker only disengages the trigger from the hammer, but the kicker is that the firing-pin block safety secures the firing pin, preventing ANY forward motion, excepting only if the trigger is pulled.

    It simply WON'T fire if you just drop it. There has to be a triggerpull.

    So again...

    A decorated 24-year police veteran is supposedly so reckless as to clean(??) a loaded service 9 with his son in the same room, while watching TV? He somehow drops the pistol (what, less than 3 feet down?) onto a presumably-hard floor, and somehow, this impact leads to not just one, but two AD's (as if the firing-pin block safety didn't exist), somehow scoring a COM and headshot???

    Long-shot scenario is the handgun had mag in, round chambered, with the safety off, and the pistol slips. The officer grabs the falling pistol, a finger unfortunately hooking the trigger, leading to the first AD --clenching fingers on bullet impact might have led to a second AD, and then the pistol fell. I still don't buy it though, or maybe I'm not fully understanding either the event or the pistol.

    ;Q

    Edit: This much speculation may seem a little insensitive given the tragedy. I truly do feel badly for the family left behind, and the victim himself.
     
  12. batangueno

    batangueno Shock Resist

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  13. jecht_sphere

    jecht_sphere

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    nakow! i dnt believe in this! twice na pumutok!
    mukha murder yata ito hndi accidente!
     
  14. doctabako

    doctabako Gun Aficionado

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    Yes, the story seems concocted to protect someone. For all we know it could have been his 10 year old son who shot him twice thinking the gun was a toy. This begs the question though, can a 10 year old boy pull the trigger of a DAO Beretta. I haven't handled one so I don't know the trigger pull. Another question is, can the boy handle the recoil and blast of the first shot. I think not unless he's had prior experience( I taught my son how to shoot my Norinco 1911 when he was 10 along with the rudiments of gun safety). A more plausible answer is that someone else shot him and they're covering it up.
     
  15. ogiebb

    ogiebb

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    this is horse SH-T...two AD's when the gun was dropped? ;Q they are trying to cever up something
     
  16. jasonub

    jasonub

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    the beretta i had had a double action trigger of 12 pounds iirc. but its very smooth and it seems like its lighter
     
  17. PMMA97

    PMMA97 TagaBundok

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    This scenario is just like the "magic bullet" of the Warren Commision. Most likely it's a cover up. And the only one that knows the truth has two extra holes in his body. My prayer for the fallen.
     
  18. Valor1

    Valor1 Range Bum

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    parang pelikula ni Arnold na True Lies ng mahulog ang machine pistol e patay lahat ang bad guys. baka naman Beretta 93R ang ginamit or selctive fire na 1911 ng Armscor in 9mm;f
     
  19. julianz

    julianz toxic master

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    . A more plausible answer is that someone else shot him and they're covering it up. [/B][/QUOTE]

    i bet my hard earned cash on this,most likely thats what happen.

    its just a wild guess and i think in order for someone to claim insurance money , kailangan palabasin talaga eh accident.

    Condolence sa mga naiwan.
     
  20. Alexii

    Alexii Janeway Forever

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    The gun, if it really was a Beretta 92D (or 92FS), has a zero chance of going off when dropped because of reasons already mentioned above. Attributing the second shot to an AD is pushing it to the realm of the impossible. Onli in da pilipins.

    The trigger pull of a Beretta 92 D is around 8lbs. Many of us 92FS shooters use the 92D hammer spring (D-spring) in lieu of the 92FS hammer spring which scales at around 12lbs. This greatly improves the DA pull of the Beretta.

    I feel sorry for the fallen officer. RIP.