A scientific look at the mask fallacy – and why we’re told to wear them

Discussion in 'Covid-19 News/Info' started by TBO, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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  2. MaxxAction

    MaxxAction

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    Just wanted to post this to make some Pantywaist heads spin. From the article:

    Facts on mask efficacy

    Until recently, the overwhelming percentage of doctors recommended against masks for anyone who wasn’t sick or caring for someone who was.

    Consider that on May 21 of this year, the highly respected New England Journal of Medicine stated, “We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.”

    Consider the report by trauma & emergency physician Dr. Kelly Victory, who said, “[T]here’s no scientific justification for normal healthy people to be wearing masks.”

    Okay, those are statements. What about studies?

    As I dug for scientific articles both in favor of and against the wearing of masks (I really do strive to understand both sides of an issue), I came across a thorough meta-analysis of extant studies on mask efficacy. The work was conducted by Denis G. Rancourt, Ph.D, and by reading his paper, “Masks Don’t Work: A Review of Science Relevant to Covid-19 Social Policy,” you will save yourself hours of boring library research.

    In an interview Rancourt did with Del Bigtree on The Highwire YouTube channel, Rancourt gave an overview of his research, saying:

    “If you use only proper studies – randomized, controlled trials with verified outcomes – they all unambiguously say that there is no statistical evidence of a benefit in terms of reducing risk of getting a viral respiratory disease. They all say it.”

    Rancourt also says the current narrative about wearing masks to prevent spreading Covid is simply “a river of talk, it’s a river of posturing, it’s a river of policy statements.” He says you can’t just ask people in a study if they had the sniffles last week. You have to determine if people really got sick.

    f you look at those [studies],” Rancourt says, “and there have been many of them over the last decade, none of them show a statistically significant advantage to wearing a mask compared to not wearing a mask.”

    For those who want to dig deeper, Rancourt’s article contains links to each randomized, controlled trial on mask efficacy, and it’s a recommended read.

    Are there detriments to wearing masks?
    Absolutely. Lower oxygen levels is one result. A 2006 study showed that reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) and/or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia) can create painful headaches for people required to wear masks all day. It should also be noted that people with asthma or hypotension are at a greater risk of stroke, cardiac arrest, or an irregular heartbeat when suffering from hypoxia.

    Consider what Jennifer Cabrera, Editor of a Florida newspaper did. She says, “I sent a pulse oximeter to work with a 23-year-old man who works in an open kitchen over a grill.” Here were the readings throughout the day:

    • Before shift: 99% O2
    • After 3.5 hours of wearing a mask: 93% O2
    • After 7 hours of wearing a mask (feeling dizzy): 88% O2
    There’s also psychological trauma that can be triggered by mandatory masks. People who have been robbed at gunpoint by masked individuals are reporting traumatic reactions to masks, and women who have been sexually assaulted are reporting the same.
     

  3. rock_castle

    rock_castle Proud Nationalist who loves his country

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  4. tacit mesa

    tacit mesa

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    Because it's just wrong, but no amount of science will convince you otherwise due to your ingrained confirmation bias. How many counter-articles would you like me to post? How many will you actually read, or more importantly, comprehend? Why should I waste my time?
     
  5. MaxxAction

    MaxxAction

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    But, but, but Science! Trust the Experts!

    Or maybe you didn't read far enough to discover the part about actual studies that refute the notion that a mask is going to protect you from getting infected?

    Just in case:

    “If you use only proper studies – randomized, controlled trials with verified outcomes – they all unambiguously say that there is no statistical evidence of a benefit in terms of reducing risk of getting a viral respiratory disease. They all say it.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
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  6. MaxxAction

    MaxxAction

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    Are you a psychic?

    It's just uncanny how you were able to predict that with such certainty, and you were right!
     
  7. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    Meh. Don't care. Wear one, don't wear one. If it makes people feel safer, they're more likely to go out and about and spend money and bolster the economy.
     
  8. Paul53

    Paul53 MAKE HATE WRONG AGAIN!

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    Conflicting opinions on the internet? Who woulda thunk it?
     
  9. Dave514

    Dave514

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    It's weird that GT is days ahead of this article with the NEJM statement “We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.” and how the authors came out to explain that they were advocating masks because asymptomatic people shed the virus and that they are more about protecting the spread OF infection than FROM infection.

    Throughout the article it's clear that they are very biased, selective and ignore the overwhelming amount of information that says the opposite.

    It's also very dishonest how they fail to mention that the change in mask recommendations occurred when it was discovered that asymptomatic carriers shed the virus.
     
  10. UncleDave

    UncleDave

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    It is agreed that masks are ineffective barriers to the wearer. That's why the egg-sperts say wearing a mask helps keep the wearer from spreading the virus to others, not necessarily to prevent the wearer from getting infected.

    Regarding aerosols, a non-N95 consumer-grade or cloth mask isn't going to stop aerosolized particles. And, if it was clear that asymptomatic spread is nonexistent then I would argue that masks don't do diddly squat when worn by asymptomatic people, but I haven't heard anything conclusive either way.

    I dunno... If you're tested every week or two and aren't positive, or you tested positive for antibodies, I don't see the point of you having to wear a mask. It should then be up to you, not mandatory.

    We can rebel against our leaders for being tyrants, and many of them are, with ridiculous decrees and restrictions that don't make sense, but for the most part they're stuck between a rock and a hard place and are always going to be over-cautious, lest they get accused of "not doing enough" to protect the public. Sucks to be them for sure, but if they would only put more thought into their policies instead of forcing a one-size-fits-all solution on everyone, we might all be happier and healthier.
     
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  11. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    While I don't question the results of the O2 measurements, I have to wonder if the mask was actually worn for seven straight hours or even 3.5 straight hours. If so, this would not be typical of the way masks are being worn. I also wonder if the same measurements were taken without a mask. That is, is there something about working a grill that reduces 02 levels or is it solely wearing the mask?

    As far as the trauma thing goes, oh well. It is legal, even without a mandate, to wear a mask and people have been doing so, even before COVID, although in very small numbers. The relative few who might be traumatized will have to find a way to deal with it as I doubt it is going away, no matter how many studies debunk it.
     
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  12. MaxxAction

    MaxxAction

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    Boy howdy...

    did you say a mouthful there. The only reason I wear one is because by decree I must, under threat of fine or jail time, if I want to go into any business in the Memphis area to buy anything. The political posturing around this issue is staggering.
     
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  13. Ordell Robbie

    Ordell Robbie Giant Member

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    This is off of snopes.(Not a fan for the record.)

    Claim
    A photograph of non-respirator ear loop mask packaging demonstrates that such masks are ineffective at protecting against the spread of COVID-19.


    They conclude that it is false.


    [​IMG]





    Their conclusion-


    This photograph (and others like it) reflects accurate disclaimers on the packaging of face masks that caution users, “THIS PRODUCT IS NOT A RESPIRATOR AND WILL NOT PROVIDE ANY PROTECTION AGAINST COVID-19 (CORONAVIRUS) OR OTHER VIRUSES OR CONTAMINANTS.” Such disclaimers do not mean that wearing masks is ineffective at limiting the spread of COVID-19, however, but rather that viewers are misunderstanding the function and purpose of different types of face masks.


    This is typical snopes twisted logic IMO. The picture is accurate and snopes acknowledges that but then they try to claim "viewers are misunderstanding the function and purpose of different types of face masks" which is complete BS. That's a mask a lot people wear and the disclaimer says what it says so there is no misunderstanding of the function of that particular type of mask.




    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cloth-masks-ineffective-covid19/






    .
     
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  14. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

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    Sounds like a bunch of idiotic conspiracy bull-schidt.
     
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  15. GT4494

    GT4494

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    Not on I-95 any more!!!
    Since where we live there there is a fine if you do not wear a mouth covering and stores can ask you to leave, I picked up a couple of Gaiters. They are considered masks but are really "neck warmers". you can get them in a wicking material and ear hoops.

    They do not fog my glasses and are cooler than a mask in the 95 degrees and 80% humidity here since they are open at the bottom. They can also be bought with all kinds of designs. Currently I am using the gorilla. :)
     
  16. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    Well, not really. That the mask won't protect you from contracting the disease is true. That it might limit the spread of your cooties may or may not be true, depending on who you believe. So, if Snopes falls into the camp that masks help slow the spread of COVID cooties, then their "false" conclusion makes sense.
     
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  17. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Same old BS, it's never gonna stop.

    Anyone denying masks should be at the end of the line for treatment and the eventual vaccines.
     
  18. Ordell Robbie

    Ordell Robbie Giant Member

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    The manufacturers warning says

    "WILL NOT PROVIDE ANY PROTECTION AGAINST COVID-19(CORINAVIRUS) OR OTHER VIRUSES OR CONTAMINANTS."

    Snopes acknowledges that as a fact but then has to throws in a bait and switch. viewers are misunderstanding the function and purpose of different types of face masks. You acknowledge it as fact also and then throw in your own bait and switch, your acknowledgement-

    That the mask won't protect you from contracting the disease is true.

    Then your spin-

    That it might limit the spread of your cooties may or may not be true, depending on who you believe.



    This viewer understands completely, are there masks that provide protection against the virus? Yes.

    Is that little flimsy thing(and a lot of others) a lot of people are wearing around one of them? No, not according to the manufacturer, Snopes and even you.

    So you are certainly free to believe Snopes "false" conclusion even though they don't even believe it but I'll take the manufacturers word on it.
     
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  19. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday CLM

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    Like the TSA, wearing a mask is just a 'feel-good' measure, even the Sham-Wow guy says CoronaVirus can get through regular masks, but the Sham-Wow mask is special... ;)

    [​IMG]

    At first I was for 'freedom of choice' on the whole mask thing, but after thinking about it...if it mystifies the facial-recognition cameras everywhere, I will probably wear one, along with sunglasses...
     
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  20. czsmithGT

    czsmithGT

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    If telling people to put a piece of cloth over their face while inside during a pandemic is the sign of “government tyranny”, lots of people must never have seen what actual government tyranny looks like.