close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

A laser on a glock -- how much does it help?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Marlene, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. Marlene

    Marlene

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    I beg your pardon if this is not an appropriate post for this forum, but I am in need of the opinions of people who handle the Glock with a laser -- both experienced and inexperienced user.

    I am reviewing a case in which a Glock caliber .45 auto semiautomatic pistol with a laser sight has been identified as the murder weapon.

    The man charged with the murder is experienced with rifles, but not with handguns. The gun belonged to the husband of the woman who was murdered and was kept in the house. The murder occurred at the house.

    The State argues that the woman came home and didn't suspect any danger. The man charged with the murder was her husband's younger brother, and she had no known reason to fear him. The State charges that the husband hired his younger brother as a hit man.

    The State claims that the defendant was standing in the doorway of a bathroom, and the victim was walking down the hallway to the master bedroom, passing the bathroom. Allegedly, she was shot as she passed the bathroom door, with a single shot that killed her instantly. No other shots were fired. The bullet entered her head just below the ear and travelled in a straight trajectory but didn't exit the other side of the head. It was lodged just under the skin, which was bulging.

    The forensic pathologist said that the gun was not touching her when it was fired, but other than that she could not tell how far away the gun was.

    The State argues that the laser attachment would enable even someone who is inexperienced with hand guns and who is unfamiliar with using a laser sight to commit this murder.

    Again, I apologize if this post is out of line for this particular board, but I am having a great deal of trouble believing that the laser sight can make someone a good enough marksman to hit a moving target on the first and only shot.

    I will say, I have never fired a handgun, don't own guns, and have absolutely no experience with them. therefore, I haven't the foggiest notion how much practice, if any, would be required for someone to be able to pull this off.

    The forensic pathologist did not say the woman had to be standing, just that the gun had to be at the same angle as her head in order for the bullet to follow that trajectory.

    But the State argues that she was walking down the hall, in motion, still absolutely unaware of any danger around her, when she was shot.

    I hope I will get lots of opinions.

    Thank you very much for your time. Again, I apologize if I have abused this forum.


    Marlene
     
  2. Algaroth

    Algaroth GADM \m/

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    I could definitely see a laser sight giving an inexperienced shooter a major advantage. If that laser sight is aimed properly, the shooter doesn't even have to take the time to aim, really - it's possible to do a point and click execution, I would imagine.

    Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I've never fired a pistol with a laser sight. But logically thinking, I can see a laser sight giving a newbie a definite advantage.

    Anyway, good luck on the case. Sounds like a doozy.:shocked:
     

  3. Razoreye

    Razoreye ♥♥Adorkable!♥♥

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    3,122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Equinsu Ocha, Equinsu Ocha!!
    I'm calling BS on this thread.
     
  4. Clem Eastwood

    Clem Eastwood

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    im a troll, foldy wole. im a troll, foldy wole....
     
  5. BexarWolf

    BexarWolf Got Milk?

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Round Rock, Texas
    Possibly someone looking for inside information in preparation for commiting a contract killing? hmmmm
    :shocked: :ambulance: :eyebrow:
     
  6. Matius

    Matius

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    TN
    I wasn't sure initially if this thread was legit or not, but what the heck I'll give my .02
    If I was a defense attorney I would want to find out whether or not the laser had been zeroed to the gun. If someone just threw on a set of laser grips or some other type of laser but didn't take the time to zero the laser on the range, it wouldn't do anything to enhance the shooters ability. Additionally it doesn't matter if the laser is pointed at the victims head as she walks down the hall, it matters where it was pointed when the trigger was pulled. What I mean is an inexperienced shooter would have a tendency to jerk the trigger, pulling the gun off target. No aiming device is going to make a bullet hit a target if the gun isn't held steady.
     
  7. SomeGuyInAHat

    SomeGuyInAHat

    Joined:
    May 18, 2001
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melanomaville
    Placing a perfectly zeroed laser on a weapon does not make it foolproof; if it did, everyone would have lasers on their weapons.

    Accurate shooting boils down to two components: Sight Alignment and Trigger Control. When using a laser, aligning the sights is as simple as placing that little red dot on the target. However, trigger control is still part of the equation. An inexperienced and/or untrained shooter is likely to shoot low or low-left even with a laser.
     
  8. Marlene

    Marlene

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sorry some of you think this is a gag or something, but it's not. It's a bona fide capital murder case.

    I appreciate the two responses. When I have a better opportunity, I will respond to them. But at this point, the one opinion agrees with what I've heard so far, that the laser would make it so simple, all the person had to do was keep a steady aim of the lase and pull the trigger once she walked into the laser beam.

    How bright is that laser beam? Under what conditions would it have been noticeable by her as she walked down the hall?
     
  9. RCKnight

    RCKnight

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NE, USA
    What if the shooter thought it only took one shot. Lets face it everyone can get lucky. As a kid a shot many dragon flies off their perch.....lol Some dry fire practice could make any shooter skilled enough and a lazer's not that hard. Maybe the shooter though he head shot her end of story. Or she would be there for some time and not get medical help. Attorneys will say anything to sidetrack a jury. It's a dumb argument. Luck it just sometimes luck.
     
  10. Marlene

    Marlene

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    And wouldn't the fact that she is in motion add to the difficulty? That's what I am having trouble getting a hang on -- she's moving as the shot is fired.

    The State is insistent that she was walking down the hallway unaware of any danger.

    Is there much difference between shooting a rifle and a hand gun? If a person is a steady shooter with a rifle, will that automatically transfer over to shooting a handgun? Or does the person still have to practice with a handgun.
     
  11. Marlene

    Marlene

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, I think I understand you -- he didn't necessarily attempt to kill her instantly, and was prepared to take further action if necessary. yes, that does make sense. but if you are hired as a hit man, wouldn't you want to be sure that you did at least disable her, so she couldn't get help?
     
  12. Blinky

    Blinky Rocket Surgeon

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Beaver, OR
    I will echo what some other posters have said. Laser or no laser it all boils down to trigger control. If the shooter is inexperienced and/or nervous (about to murder someone) chances are the shot will not be accurate.


    As far as how noticible and bright the laser is, what kind of laser was it? Most of the handheld lasers that you can buy for $10 compare fairly well to the laser sights on the market. Their is one brand of laser sight that produces a flashing beam that, arguably, is far more noticeable by the shooter and the target.
     
  13. Mike of Oregon

    Mike of Oregon

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Willamette Valley
    my recommendation is some hands-on research. Make a trip to a gun store that has some weapons set up with laser sights. Even better if you can take one to a range. I've only seen 2 laser sighted handguns: a compact revolver and a G23. I didn't get to shoot them just aim with the laser because someone was showing them off to me. I have no idea how easy it is to shoot with it accurately but they sure were easy to turn on and point. Get out there and try it for yourself.
     
  14. ClearDark

    ClearDark

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    From what you described, it sounds like the shooter was fairly close to the victim. In such confined quarters, it's not impossible for the shooter to get a shot like you mentioned. If the laser was sighted, even more believable. Could have been luck. It's not an impossible shot, maybe more unlikely.

    BTW, how can you prove the shooter was not expirenced with a handgun? If he shot a rifle fine, im sure he has pistol trigger time.
     
  15. Blinky

    Blinky Rocket Surgeon

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Beaver, OR
    The motion would definitely increase the difficulty. If this person is an experienced rifle shooter then, most likely, he's well versed in the basics of shooting. Breath, trigger control, sight alignment etc... That being the case the laser would add an advantage letting the shooter focus on the target and not the weapon.
     
  16. Marlene

    Marlene

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    The defendant claims no experience with a hand gun, and the State has no evidence to the contrary. The whole emphasis is on the laser making it so easy that someone can pick up that handgun and shoot a deadly shot with no prior practice.

    The other important aspect of the case is that the defense claims an interrupted robbery. The State says the robbery was staged, and poorly so. But, the State insists she was so unaware of danger that she was just walking down the hallway as usual towards the master bedroom.

    The hall is a standard hall you see in a home, with bathrooms, laundry room, spare bedrooms on each side.

    Thanks so much for the insight --

    and, no, I'm not a hit man looking for information. I wouldn't post on a public bb using my real name if I was, and the admin of this bb can trace my IP and determine that my handle is in fact my real name.
     
  17. Razoreye

    Razoreye ♥♥Adorkable!♥♥

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    3,122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Equinsu Ocha, Equinsu Ocha!!
    I'm sorry but I still can't fathom this to be a real post unless someone can actually look this case up and verify this dude's story.
     
  18. OhioLibertarian

    OhioLibertarian Senior Member!?

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I'll give you 3 guesses..
    Well, I have had a fair amount of experience with a G26 with a laser sight, and I have a hard time buying this.

    If she was walking, the time on target for the shot is going to be minimal.

    I can imagine her walking, the murderer instructing her to stop, and then busting her in the head.

    As far as making a head shot on a moving target, even at just a 2 mile an hour pace, in the span of a door width with someone who is not well versed in pistolcraft seems hard to believe, but stopping the victim and telling her to look straight ahead is plausible to me.

    A well sighted in laser does assist with rapid target aquisition, but it is engaged either by a pressure switch on the trigger or a pressure switch on the backstrap of the pistol (like the Crimson Trace grips) which means if the murderer heard her coming and raised the weapon with the intent of firing as she walked by, there is a good chance that the laser would have engaged before she entered the door way, or as she was entering the door area, which would lead me to believe she would have seen it prior to being killed.

    Obviously I don't have all the details here, but.
     
  19. Marlene

    Marlene

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can look up the case if I am allowed to post the URL. I speak in the present tense, because that is my training -- i.e., the State claims, rather than the State claimed . . -- if the moderator gives me permission, I'll post the URL for the case.

    Other facts about the case. The defendant was NOT a professional hit man -- the State does not claim that. The State claims he was hired by his brother, though, paid to do the murder.

    Arson was also involved.

    The gun, the alleged murder weapon, was left at the scene. The laser was not operational immediately after the murder/arson, but the DA was able to get it fixed to demonstrate the laser to the jury.
     
  20. FEDLEO

    FEDLEO Ugly Mother......

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,854
    Likes Received:
    96
    Location:
    State of disbelief
    Hey Eastwood for once we agree on something!:shocked: