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A Glock 19 Gen 4's first range trip.

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by SubCaliber, Apr 8, 2012.

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  1. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    Well I headed off to the range this weekend with my G19 and I will cut to the chase... I have not been as lucky as many others here.

    I already did the long winded version of the range report here so anyone who wishes to read the extra stuff can if they wish. The short version is:

    Friday I went with 50 rounds of Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ, 100 rounds Magtech 115gr FMJ, 200 Rounds of Winchester USA 115gr FMJ, and 50 rounds of Winchester USA 147gr FMJ. Actually it was 204 rounds of the 115gr Winchesters because each box had exactly 102 in it, BONUS!

    Mind you this is my first Glock. My first plastic framed pistol at all for that matter.

    I shot some other handguns to compare the recoil with the Glock. I burned up 10 rounds of the Winchester 147gr's here(I only have 10rnd mags, I'm in NY) in my Ruger P89 and 10 in the Glock. All functioned fine.

    Then it was off to the weaker ammo. The 50 Blazers (PF=131.68) all fed and ejected and had no stoppages. However a large number of them went over my head, on my head, in my face or down my shirt. I didn't care for that BUT they did work.

    The 100 Magtech's not so much. Even more of those came right back at me and they felt a little weaker. Then the inevitable happened... A round didn't make it out of the gun:

    [​IMG]

    Rather disappointing but not totally unexpected. Although one of the reasons I had chosen the Glock was because of it's supposed "Battle Ready Out Of The Box" reputation. Yeah, not so much with the Gen 4's it seems.

    Anyway that was weak ammo (PF=130.53) so we'll let that pass. Onto the white box 115gr Winchesters. Noticeably more powerful (PF=136.85) far fewer of these came back at me. Unfortunately the ones that did confirmed the rounds had more power because they hit me harder. Not a single feed issue in the whole 200 rounds. I am thinking I need to stick to a Power Factor of 135 or greater though for the time being with this thing.

    I still had 30 rounds of the 147gr JHP Winchesters left though. They have a Power Factor of 145.53. I kept them for a reason. I wanted to test the Streamlight TLR-1 with Remote Switch I had bought for the pistol.

    So I loaded up the 30 rounds into my remaining 3 mags. Mounted the light and started the test run. First I have to say I don't care for the trigger part feeling on the grip, it changes how I hold the gun on a grip that I already feel is just a tad smaller than I'd like. That aside I set about to shooting it with the light on. The whole thing feels different. I had two feed failure in the three mags. One stovepipe in the ejection port with the next round half chambered below it and the other was the last round in the mag kinda stuck on the feed lips. Pretty disappointing I have to say because being able to mount a light was a primary requirement in the new pistol I bought. It would only wear the light when pulling house defense duty, I won't carry it with the light but it needs to function with the light.

    That being said there were some fit issues with the light that I go over in the long winded portion linked to above. The short version of that this picture should describe. Here the light is not screwed down tight but the remote switch it fully tight as it will go up against the trigger guard. It's obvious to see that it doesn't naturally fit on the rail straight; You can force it and tighten down the screw but this has the obvious natural side effect of pushing up on the front of the frame. Which is weaker in a Gen 4 than a Gen 3 because they had to remove material to fit the larger spring assy.

    [​IMG]

    So since I didn't like the feel of the switch anyway I decided Saturday to make a return trip. I couldn't afford that much ammo but I did have another box of 50 Winchester 147gr's and I picked up a box of 20 Speer Gold Dot 124gr (PF=142.60) and a box of 50 Speer Lawman 124gr (PF=135.16). Supposedly Speer say the equal sized Lawman and Gold Dots shoot and feel the same. Their PF numbers would seem to disagree with that but indeed they did feel similar to me.

    All shooting Saturday was done with the light without the remote switch attached. I much prefer the feel of the grip that way and it's the same when I practice all the time which I feel is important. So the remote switch is likely to stay off. So I started with the Winchesters since they were the ones that had two issues in three mags the day before. I put two mags through the tube of the Winchester 147gr's. Not a single problem. However the last round on the third mag did exactly what it did before. Looked to hang up on the bottom of the feed ramp. It didnt' look set back (nor was the one yesterday) so I just pulled the slide back and let it go and the round chambered fine. Mags four and five went fine. The failure though was the exact same as the second one yesterday so that might rule out the remote switch as the cause.

    Now I only had 20 rounds of Gold Dots. I chose Gold Dots because I have used them for years in my other pistols including my 1911 and have never had an issue with them feeding or functioning. So like they say go with what you know. Unfortunately I couldn't afford enough of them to make any realistic test that would matter. I needed to keep at least one mags worth for home. Thus why I got the Lawman. So... I shot the box of 124gr Lawmans and 10 of the 124gr Gold Dots. Not a single failure of any kind.

    However one mag of Gold Dots does not a test make. Four out of Five of the Winchester mags went without a hitch as well. I did note the 124gr stuff didn't come back and hit me in the face nearly as much, if at all. I rather liked that feature. However if it's the hollow point profile that's causing the occasional issue the Lawman aren't going to be a valid test. I need to suck it up and buy more Gold Dots. It may be a while before I can afford enough of them to so a comparative test to the Winchesters.

    So I have to admit I like how the gun disassembles for cleaning, I like how it feels to shoot, I like basically everythign about it except that right now I would not be able to consider it a reliable firearm. Right now my cheap Ruger P-89 is the only pistol in the house that has never has a single cycling/feed/eject issue of any kind. Not from day one out of the box. It's fired all the weak stuff this one doesn't seem to like as well. So I have to say, I am a little disappointed in the Glock I have to admit.

    I hope it improves but in the last two days I have put exactly 504 rounds through it with 4 failures. That's just not acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  2. high ground

    high ground

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    Too bad about your new gun's issues. I have read with interest all of the reliability threads on the gen 4's. I decided that it was worth the risk because I believe that if it doesn't run right, Glock will make it right and it will be worth it in the end. I have a G17 on layaway and hope to be picking it up soon. Hope your situation improves. What was your test fire date?
     

  3. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    I don't get the test shell case like most states do so I can't tell you. NY is one of the states that makes it so the rest of you all do. Up until two weeks ago or so the State required for that case to be sent to the state police for use in their useless failed CoBIS system. So I never got it. As a side note the CoBIS system was removed from the budget about a week after I got my Glock. It had been in place for over a decade, cost the state about 4 million a year to manage, not counting how much the hassle for every gun shop in the state and every gun maker was, and has not solved a single crime, ever. It was nothing more than an politician driven anti-gun law designed to make handguns more costly in the state.

    However I digress. I do have the latest recoil spring I believe though. It has a 0 at 9 o'clock a 4 at 3 0'clock and a 3 at 6 o'clock. This is it:

    [​IMG]

    I had the choice of Gen 3 or Gen 4 and I too believed the issues had been resolved. I'm regretting that a bit right now. Hopefully it works itself out. I am certain it will feed FMJ/TMJ profile rounds reliably at this point. As long as they aren't super weak. However a defensive gun is useless if it is unreliable with hollow points IMO.

    If I am plinking away at the range with FMJs and it malfunctions it's no big deal. If it malfunctions when I am trying to use it to save my life when it's loaded with JHP's that's where it counts. I am hopeful the Gold Dots will work better. They even feed great in my Kimber and 1911's are supposedly the most finicky with HP's.
     
  4. TX expat

    TX expat

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    That's too bad. I was somewhat hesitant when I purchased my Gen4 G19 as well but, unlike yours, mine has functioned flawlessly. I've put probably 100 rounds of 147 gr. Ranger-T through it, 150 rounds of various store bought stuff and 500-600 rounds of 147 gr. hand loads; all with zero FTE's or FTF's. I have had a few rogue ejections come back instead of out, but that's about the worst thing I've experienced so far.
     
  5. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    Have you attached a light to it? It seems to only have issues with HP's with the light on it. Except for the one eject issue early on with really weak ammo it's actually made it through everything else.

    Of course I really need it to work with the light and JHP's so we'll see. Hopefully the Gold Dots will prove to be reliable.
     
  6. TX expat

    TX expat

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    No sir, no light or anything else on the rail; just bone stock pistol.
     
  7. ArLEOret

    ArLEOret

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    Sorry about your problems with the G19. I have a G19 Gen4 and when I took it to the range, with all the problems reported I used one box of NATO 124 grain. No problems. I also put a Storm Lake barrel in my G27,G23 and G22. With the NATO 124 gr. ammo I had zero problems with any of the Gen4s. I have yet not taken my G17 to the range so I don't know how that will work out. BTW the reason for the 40/9 conversions is that I am an old geezer and the 40 is a bit stiff but I wanted the capability to use either ammo and it's cheaper to shoot on my Social Security with the 9mm. Stay safe!
     
  8. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    I do have to wonder if the light is part of the problem with the JHP's. The round nose stuff has worked great except that one bobble with the really weak magtechs. The 124 grain Lawman worked best IMO.
     
  9. TX expat

    TX expat

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    Yeah, it's certainly odd that you see issues with it attached although I don't see how it could really factor into the problem. Weird, to be sure... I don't have any small rail attachments, or I'd stick something on mine just to test it out.

    I hope you get it sorted out. You're right, you can't afford those sorts of issues with a SD weapon.
     
  10. adamg01

    adamg01

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    I am hesitant about recommending Glock anymore with all the problems of the newer pistols. I guess I am lucky because my newest Glock is a 2007 model. Good luck with getting your problems resolved. Even my older g19 will throw brass at me but it isn't very common. My gen. 2 g19 never does.
     
  11. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    I do kick myself a bit I have to admit. I had the choice of either a Gen 3 or 4 G19. I liked the more aggressive grip texture on the gen 4 so I went with that.

    I was also considering a 17 but since CC was one of the two purposes of this pistol I stuck with the 19. I can't help but wonder if I had gone with the 17 or the Gen 3 G19 I wouldn't be having any issues at all.

    Oh well what's done is done. I will suck it up and try to get a fair number of Golt Dots to put through it. I have had 3 failures in the 80 rounds of the Winchester 147gr JHP's I tried. So I figure if I can get 100 Gold Dots through it without issue I will be satisfied that they work better than the Winchesters.

    If not then I don't know what to do, I guess at that point it'll be time to call Glock. :dunno:
     
  12. adamg01

    adamg01

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    I think both generation G19's are having the same problems with the new production. If you ever stumble up on an older G19 that is lightly used, those are the models when Glock still had a great reputation. Good luck and I hope Glock gets these problems ironed out.
     
  13. vtducrider

    vtducrider

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    So on the fence about the Gen 4's. LGS has a FDE G19 from Lipsey's, and I am so attempted to pick it up. I have 3 Gen 3 G19's, and they all run perfectly. Maybe it's not worth taking a chance. Ugh....
     
  14. Hawkeye16

    Hawkeye16

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    I have not had any issues besides the random eject at my face with 115gr. I should be getting my tlr-1s this week so hopefully I do not have the same issues as you, or it will be going back.

    My g19 gen4 was purchased about 3 weeks ago and I have about 500 rounds through it. Mostly lawman 115gr and Winchester white box 115gr


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  15. multo17

    multo17

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    Sorry 2 hear about the newer Glock lately! I just took out my new G17 Gen3 a few days ago for the first time & I was glad it did well. It was born late 2011. I had placed a SS guide rod using factory springs. However, I did had ONE failure to feed, using one of my 33rd glock factory mag, but the rest none. Also, I had 1 brass hit me on the head, 2 on the chest, & 2 or 3 in my right shoulder. I had fired a total of 102 rds of 115 grain WW box. I normally use weak ammo for practice & to see how it would eject also.:cool:
     
  16. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    Mine has functioned flawlessly with both of those. Even with the light it worked with the lawman (124gr TMJ). It's with the light and with the hollow points that seems to be my issue. Specifically with the Winchester USA 147gr JHP's. If it works with Gold Dots I will be OK though it is just going to cost me some cash to see.

    I'd be really interested to see how yours runs with the TLR-1.
     
  17. Irelander

    Irelander Glocker

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    I remember in Armorer class the instructor saying that G22 users will need extra power magazine springs if they are going to attach a light. Sounded funny to me but he said that you will have malfunctions if you hang a light on the G22 rail with standard magazine springs. The weight on the front of the gun must reduce muzzle flip and cause the slide to move faster. A extra power magazine spring would make up for the decrease in timing of the slide and pop that next round up faster...i guess. However we were only learning about Gen3 pistols.

    Just an idea...but maybe an extra power magazine spring in your mags would solve the problem you are having in feeding issues with the light attached. Although I am not sure where you would get extra power mag springs.
     
  18. fuzzyyoji

    fuzzyyoji

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    Went out yesterday with my g19c. WWB ammo. First time I've noticed problems out of it. Still dirty (the ammo), but had a wierd feel, and, don't know how to describe it. The pressure wave in my face was more pronounced. No malfs, but the brass was bouncing off me as much as not. Older gen 3, serial FUN (seriously. that's one reason I bought it haha). At least that was the end of my supply of WWB. Seemed to shoot low too, especially at around 25 yards.

    Oh yeah! First post. Been lurking and glocking for years though.
    ps. considering all the posts, it may have been me paying too much attention. But this was the first time my Father had to back away from behind me from the concussion blast. Just wierd. And the brass has never hit me before either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  19. SubCaliber

    SubCaliber

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    That would be hard to imagine but it's something I will keep it in mind. These ten round mags are so stiff already though that you need to really push it down to get the tenth round in. Then there's the issue of if they even make other spring options for the 10 round NY magazines we're saddled with here. I will have to look.

    I must say that theory does make sense (even if the mags are already way stiffer than any other firearm I have) because it looks like the round simply may not have been all the way up in place when the slide went forward. Pulling the slide back and letting it slide home all on it's own again does chamber the round.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  20. INEEDMILK

    INEEDMILK

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    I've got a Gen4 19 about two months ago with a test fire of 12-31-11.

    I have a Viridian C5L light/laser combo bolted onto the front.

    I've shot about 200 rounds of JHPs (124gr+P), and ~2300 rounds of 115gr FMJ (everything from Federal to S&B to WWB) and have not had a single failure of any kind. One handed, left handed, limp wristing, rapid fire - it always cycled.