A full set of cards...

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by TBO, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Couple killed in crash, and at-fault driver had marijuana cards

    HEATH TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) — Investigators say a pair of newlyweds killed in an Allegan County crash and the driver responsible for it all had medical marijuana cards, further complicating their investigation.

    Logan Allbaugh, 24, and his 22-year-old wife, Hannah Kwekel, died July 17 when another driver failed to stop at a stop sign at 128th Avenue and M-40 in Heath Township, pushing the couple’s car into the path of an oncoming vehicle.

    Allbaugh and Kwekel got married June 23 not far from where the crash happened.


    Capt. Chris Kuhn of the Allegan County Sheriff’s Office said the driver who caused the crash had a prescription for medical marijuana. However, it’s too soon to know if the drug was in his system at the time of the crash. Toxicology tests are pending.

    Kuhn says Allbaugh and Kwekel also had medical marijuana cards. Additionally, the couple had what appeared to be a state application to become a licensed medical marijuana provider, according to Kuhn.

    Even with a medical marijuana card, it’s against the law to drive with active levels of marijuana’s psychoactive ingredient in your system. However, there is no set legal limit to determine when a driver is high, making it difficult to prove marijuana use led to the crash.

    Kuhn said the situation underlines a serious concern of law enforcement about the push to legalize marijuana before giving the Legislature enough time to study its effects and create appropriate laws to regulate it like alcohol.

    Kent and four other Michigan counties are currently part of a pilot program for roadside drug testing; however, Allegan County is not one of them.

    link
     
  2. ked

    ked

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    Even with a medical marijuana card, it’s against the law to drive with active levels of marijuana’s psychoactive ingredient in your system. However, there is no set legal limit to determine when a driver is high, making it difficult to prove marijuana use led to the crash

    how stupid it that !
     

  3. ked

    ked

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    if the couple were part of my family, I'd,,,I'd,,,I'd,,,I'd better not say
     
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  4. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    -Marijuana isn't like alchohol
    -Doubt many/any would be happy with any level deemed to be illegal (they'd decry it's too low)

    The standard for weed is "under the influence".
     
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  5. BigDog[RE]

    BigDog[RE] NRA Member

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    What happens when two drunk drivers get in an accident, how is fault determined? Do they both get cited (if they survived)? Curious, never really thought about it before.
     
  6. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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  7. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    I'm sure the MJ cards had nothing to do with it. But the iPhone streaming "Up in Smoke" and the empty party-size Doritos bag might lead some to think drugs were involved.
     
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  8. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    I think in OR, independent evaluators are used to determine whether or not a driver was "under the influence" of weed at the time of a weed DUI.
     
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  9. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    I think weed is much "stronger" now than it use to be.
     
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  10. ked

    ked

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    i wouldn't give 2 fuggs about pleasing the public. if you are impared, at all, you shouldn't be endangering others lives! if any of our loved ones got killed, none of us would care what their level of imparement was.
     
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  11. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    Most of the drivers on the road are impaired at some point, and not even primarily from intoxicants. Just looking down to pick something up from the passenger seat can easily account for a fatal crash.

    And anyone who has a glass of wine at a restaurant and drives home 30 minutes later is literally "under the influence" of alcohol. Whether that condition could or did contribute to an accident is another matter. So we have metrics that attempt to set standards.
     
  12. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Legally, no that is not true.

    The per se amount of alcohol for DUI purposes is .08 which is doubtful that many if any people would test at in your above scenario.

    Respectfully
     
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  13. rock_castle

    rock_castle Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

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    Good luck telling the dead couple’s parents that weed isn’t as bad or as dangerous as alcohol.
     
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  14. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    No, I mean literally, not legally. As in, if I did that, I'd be able to feel a tiny effect from the wine, but (I assume) I'd be well under .08.

    And then... if I hit a person I'd be responsible either way. And even if it was demonstrated I was under .08, I'd expect the prosecutor to make an issue of the wine.

    So it kinda cuts both ways.
     
  15. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Keep in mind that police don't determine who's at fault in an accident (yes, cops list/say that), Insurance Companies do. And yes, I'd expect the Insurance company to make an issue of any blood alcohol results they have access to.

    The job of the cops in an accident is to collect as much information as possible to figure out what happened, and if there were any violations of law.
     
  16. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Most states have a section for "under the influence" of alcohol as well. In a situation that you describe where the driver is impaired they can still be charged with DUI. This is where things like driving pattern (or actions/ lack of actions lead to a collision), FSTs and subject observations (eyes, speech, balance etc) become extremely impressive.

    I'll use me as an example. I don't drink at all. If i were to have a couple of beers or a shot of whiskey it will probably have some impairment on me. I am nowhere near the .08 but you wouldn't want me driving an 8000lbs missile at your family.
     
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  17. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    Ya, I know. And the laws need to be realistically enforceable. We can't convene SCOTUS every time someone gets pulled over.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't have a very good understanding of law. But to be literally under the influence of something does not necessarily mean a person is significantly governed by it in a particular situation. I've probably been way over .08 on adrenaline a few times when someone cut me off in traffic, but I was able to rise above.

    So where this gets interesting is that laws are basically designed to prevent/limit negative outcomes. DUI is designed to prevent crashes resulting from significant alcohol impairment. In order to do that, we make the inebriation itself a crime at some metricated point. And that makes sense, as long as we can recognize that there is some level of ingested alcohol that does not constitute an impairment in/of itself in most normal people.

    It does not need to be illegal to take a tiny sip of wine and then drive. And if a normal person does that and gets in a crash, the wine is probably not the cause.
     
  18. D-Ric902

    D-Ric902

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    If the traffic flow had been regulated better and a traffic circle in place, this never would have happened. Or the other driver who t boned them was not in control of his vehicle and driving defensively. He should be cited.

    I can’t think of any other possible reason.

    .
     
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  19. NDcent

    NDcent Socially Inept

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    It's only weed. :whistling:

    People drive down the road all day, every day under the influence; laws and plastic cards be damned. Laws and plastic cards don't cause or stop crime, they only allow for punishment.

    It use to take 2 hands, 2 legs, and at least 1 eye to drive a vehicle. Now you can listen to the radio, watch a movie, text, have a conversation, eat a donut, drink a beer, and smoke a doobie all on cruise control.
     
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