9mm vs .40 excellent demo / test

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by quantico, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    I saw this paul harrell video on police changing from 9mm to 40.. and the merits of both 3 years ago. I just watched it today and found the logic and conclussions excellent. Before posting or trying to argue a point I would ask you to really watch the video , and do so with an open mind. The ammo tested 3 years ago is still the same high quality improved ammo far different than ammo made 15 or 25 years ago.. so this video uses the improved ammo we try to discuss.. I agree with paul harrells conclussion. He is beyond highly skilled and respected.


    View: https://youtu.be/LTTDgZZZFa0
     
  2. hardluk1

    hardluk1

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    His test is to limited to be worth anything really useful . Just to limited on bullet weight and brands . I guess I can get far more out of LuckyGunner lab test .
     
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  3. Slotback

    Slotback Glock 35 Millennium Member

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    Very interesting video.And it is well known that every commonly carried pistol cartridge has a history of the one shot stop and the multiple hit failures.
     
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  4. alnicoG22

    alnicoG22

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    I think the bottom line is many new FBI recruits are urban folks who have never held, let alone fired, a gun. The subjective recoil of the 10mm and then the .40, prevents some from passing the range qualification. In these times, instead of not passing, the recruits can sue and the bar is lowered.
    I could be completely wrong.

    What I don't understand is why the FBI will not issue a choice of 10mm, .45 ACP, .40 S&W or 9mm to field agents likely to be in the line of fire. To the agents setting behind a computer fighting cyber crime, issue a G43.

    My agency has gone to 9mm but as a reserve I get to keep my G22. I am issued Federal HST 180 GR.
     
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  5. jmohme

    jmohme

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    My BIL is one of the FBI agents sitting behind a desk. The FBI never issued him any weapon.
    For that I am somewhat grateful! :)
     
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  6. unit1069

    unit1069

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    I think he'd done better by comparing Gold Dot, HST, or Golden Saber instead of Hornady 115-grain JHP.
     
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  7. Bradd D

    Bradd D

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  8. grecco

    grecco

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    Thanks for sharing.
    The 40 is a good round.
    There are deals to be had on 40s.
     
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  9. 45caldan

    45caldan

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    Not enough testing and rather "home made" instead of controlled lab study...

    Not one of Paul's best efforts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  10. alnicoG22

    alnicoG22

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    Shootings on the street do not have the opportunity to be "controlled lab."
     
  11. 45caldan

    45caldan

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    A controlled lab would do a better job of studying a bullets effectiveness better than his home made experiment.
    If I ever get attacked by a bag of groceries, I'll know what to expect I guess...
     
  12. Dr_fast

    Dr_fast

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    It’s not debatable that there’s more muzzle energy in a 40 . The question is, does it make a difference in real life and not just cinderblocks and meat targets.
    Below, 1700 people have voted by actually being shot. We see what actually happens when real people go through this and not cinderblocks and meat targets. I don’t know how we can argue with that? It doesn’t get any more real than that.
    And, keep in mind, shot placement is king. Every 9 mm of comparable size has more rounds available for more mulligans.
    Below is the Ellifritz study summarized. This is the one I’m speaking of. But I’ve included other references if you really want to research this further. Bottom line is, pistols stink at stopping power.
    Caliber debate settled
    0. Experts at Federal ammunition:


    View: https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y



    0. Ellifritz stopping power video summery :


    View: https://youtu.be/nycYxb-zNwc



    0. What the FBI says:
    https://loadoutroom.com/51037/the-reasons-why-fbi-went-to-back-to-9mm/



     
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  13. amd65

    amd65

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    I’m not concerned with the 17rd versus 15rds capacity difference between my G17 and G22. But then, I always felt pretty well armed with a 13rd Browning HiPower.
    Really, I never had much interest in the .40 until the cheap surplus pistols showed up.
    A like new Gen4 G22 with night sights for $300 is hard to ignore. After a trip to the range, mine became my house gun, loaded with 180gn HST.
     
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  14. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Dr. Roberts is an authority in this field.
     
  15. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect I feel pretty.

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    30 years ago.

    My coroner carries a .45. That's a good enough endorsement for me.
     
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  16. 0311INF

    0311INF

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    True. Not the best citation for the argument. His data, that people don't actually have access to, is ~20 years old. So if you cite him, realize your talking about somewhat irrelevant information.
     
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  17. lunarspeak

    lunarspeak

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    local kid shot a tree with a .22 over 30 yrds away and it bounced back hitting him in the head DOA...I saw a guy on cops that shoved a 357 in his mouth and it blew out his teeth, traveled around his skull and he was talking to the cops while the ambulance was comeing..that being said bullets have a funny way of defying physics and logic so ill just work on shot placement and hope for the best..lol
     
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  18. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    I thought the fotay wad dead.
     
  19. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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  20. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    Absolutely, bullets just don’t do the expected all the time. Seen a 20 yr old man take three solid hits in the torso from a 9mm AND a blast of 00 buck in the torso and he had to be physically subdued. Another guy took a 45acp in the forehead. Travelled around his skull under the skin and zipped out the back. Talked with both of them the day after the shootings. Another shooting where a biker fired a .22lr into a trailer at another biker to scare him. Round hit the corner of a window, travelled up into the ceiling, skirted the ceiling hitting a ceiling fan bracket and ricocheted hitting the biker in the trailer in the head killing him. You couldn’t have recreated a shot like that in a million tries.

    Bullets just do the damnedest things sometimes.
     
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