9mm 148gr HST Simulated Animal Shoulder Testing

1608 Views 49 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Steve Urquell, 6 d ago

Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · 11 d ago (Edited)

5

I've been dorking around with loading 148gr HSTs over D037.1 Major Powder and am chroning 1100fps out of my 6" bbl Dagger. I was curious as to what they might do WRT penetration when contacting bone.

Trying to simulate hide with carpet and bone with 5/16" thick PVC.
I know, I know, it's not a scientific experiment but the materials are what I had on the premises. Just having fun here on a beautiful day.

First shot went thru carpet, 5/16" thick PVC, (2) 1/16" thick plastic paint cans filled with water, and 1 water filled milk jug. The skives on the bullet collapsed inward.

Second shot went thru carpet, PVC, milk jug, draino bottle, (1) 2-liter and then nicked the next 2-liter.

So what did I learn? If animals are made of carpet and PVC I should be in good shape. Kinda disappointed in the HP packing stopping expansion though.

I'd love to have some feral hog hide. (Just realized I could have shot thru a leather welding glove.)

Right bullet was the first shot thru the paint cans, left HP is firmly packed with carpet. I think I could load that bullet up again and fire it.

Insect Wood Asphalt Road surface Arthropod

Wood Road surface Asphalt Metal Human leg

Insect Pest Arthropod Snow Parasite

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Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · #21 · 10 d ago

PIC123 said:
Just wish you would’ve took a few more shots, that bullet expansion is curious.
That setup took a little time, 👍

I was out of jugs. I really wanted that perfect gel block star expansion. Denied. I did have to back my powder charge down to be able to seat the bullets to a length that would fit in the mags and velocity dropped to 1050fps.

If I do another test I'll shoot thru leather and some bone.

Jarhead Al said:
And carpet

Carpet deserves to die. Seriously, dirt and grunge trap. Death to Berber.

Reactions: 5

jonb32248

· #22 · 10 d ago

😂

Railsplitter

· #23 · 10 d ago

Steve Urquell said:
I've been dorking around with loading 148gr HSTs over D037.1 Major Powder and am chroning 1100fps out of my 6" bbl Dagger. I was curious as to what they might do WRT penetration when contacting bone.
View attachment 1194075

View attachment 1194074

Trying to simulate hide with carpet and bone with 5/16" thick PVC.
I know, I know, it's not a scientific experiment but the materials are what I had on the premises. Just having fun here on a beautiful day.

First shot went thru carpet, 5/16" thick PVC, (2) 1/16" thick plastic paint cans filled with water, and 1 water filled milk jug. The skives on the bullet collapsed inward.

Second shot went thru carpet, PVC, milk jug, draino bottle, (1) 2-liter and then nicked the next 2-liter.

So what did I learn? If animals are made of carpet and PVC I should be in good shape. Kinda disappointed in the HP packing stopping expansion though.

I'd love to have some feral hog hide. (Just realized I could have shot thru a leather welding glove.)

Right bullet was the first shot thru the paint cans, left HP is firmly packed with carpet. I think I could load that bullet up again and fire it.
View attachment 1194071
View attachment 1194072 View attachment 1194073

You must have not gotten the memo! Barrier blind no expansion needed.

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someguyfromnc

· #24 · 10 d ago

For some reason the heaviest weight HSTs seem to have problems with expansion or look like someone smashed it with a hammer. Well from youtube testers at least. I love HST but I'll pass on 147 and their short barrel stuff.

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Railsplitter

· #25 · 10 d ago

someguyfromnc said:
For some reason the heaviest weight HSTs seem to have problems with expansion or look like someone smashed it with a hammer. Well from youtube testers at least. I love HST but I'll pass on 147 and their short barrel stuff.

In this case even a 6 inch barrel didn't make the heavy work, much less using a shorter barrel. For SD a mid weight bullet can't be beat.

rfd339

· #26 · 10 d ago

Matteo1371 said:
Interesting

Indeed..

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Matteo1371

· #27 · 10 d ago

rfd339 said:
Indeed..

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Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · #28 · 10 d ago

Railsplitter said:
You must have not gotten the memo! Barrier blind no expansion needed.

9mm Luger +P 90gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Self Defense Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Lehigh Defense™ Supersonic Lead Free Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 9mm Luger +P Copper ammo with Solid Monolithic.

underwoodammo.com

someguyfromnc said:
For some reason the heaviest weight HSTs seem to have problems with expansion or look like someone smashed it with a hammer. Well from youtube testers at least. I love HST but I'll pass on 147 and their short barrel stuff.

Railsplitter said:
In this case even a 6 inch barrel didn't make the heavy work, much less using a shorter barrel. For SD a mid weight bullet can't be beat.

When you fire 147s into water or gel they expand nicely due to the jacket being skived.

The reason I did this was because I was worried that a bone would make this bullet flatten and not penetrate.

I know my test isn't perfect, I said that in the OP but I was (kind of) pleased with the bullet performance since it didn't just smash flat and stop.

I'm kicking myself for using that carpet when I had an old leather welding glove on my welder. The fiber packed that HP making it a FMJ but I have heard of animal hide doing the same.

Anyways it was a fun day and I got to blow stuff up so that is better than any day at work.

Below is a 147gr Win white box HP I shot into water out of the 6"bbl.

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Pat Riot

· #29 · 10 d ago

Fun test. Thanks.

So why didn’t you use real flesh and bone?

I am kidding! 🤣🤣🤣

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GlockPride

· #30 · 10 d ago

@Steve Urquell are you related to Pilsner by chance? 😁

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Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · #31 · 10 d ago

GlockPride said:
@Steve Urquell are you related to Pilsner by chance? 😁

I brewed beer for a decade and specialized in Czech lagers. That is my homebrew forum username. A nerd who loves Czech lagers.

Pat Riot said:
Fun test. Thanks.

So why didn’t you use real flesh and bone?

I am kidding! 🤣🤣🤣

Alright mister, lets go to the woodshed. Now!

Reactions: 2

Jarhead Al

· #32 · 10 d ago

Steve Urquell said:
I brewed beer for a decade and specialized in Czech lagers. That is my homebrew forum username. A nerd who loves Czech lagers.

Alright mister, lets go to the woodshed. Now!

What happens in the woodshed, stays in the woodshed.

Enjoy your non-standard, non-scientific, , isn't analogous to real life, yet fun shooting.

Reactions: 5

Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · #33 · 10 d ago

Jarhead Al said:
What happens in the woodshed, stays in the woodshed.

Enjoy your non-standard, non-scientific, , isn't analogous to real life, yet fun shooting.

Stolen to have that engraved on my tombstone.
"Exactly (more or less) 5ft 11.355 inches below lies Steve Urquell wrapped in carpet placed inside a PVC pipe. He was in life and will remain in death, non-standard"

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someguyfromnc

· #34 · 9 d ago

Steve Urquell said:
When you fire 147s into water or gel they expand nicely due to the jacket being skived.

The reason I did this was because I was worried that a bone would make this bullet flatten and not penetrate.

I know my test isn't perfect, I said that in the OP but I was (kind of) pleased with the bullet performance since it didn't just smash flat and stop.

I'm kicking myself for using that carpet when I had an old leather welding glove on my welder. The fiber packed that HP making it a FMJ but I have heard of animal hide doing the same.

Anyways it was a fun day and I got to blow stuff up so that is better than any day at work.

Below is a 147gr Win white box HP I shot into water out of the 6"bbl.
View attachment 1194218

My experience is with the gel tests where they DIDN"T expand nicely. Many online gel tests out there to show you if you search for it. Lot of the heavy grain out of short barrel or short barrel ammo tests questionable. The most reliable stuff seems to be standard pressure for whatever reason in lighter loads.

MedicineBow

· #35 · 9 d ago

I, like you, like goofing around with different variables. The game and fish laws applicable to me won’t let me shoot big critters with 9mm rounds, not even as finishers. When it comes to barrier penetration, I really don’t worry about expansion as much as penetration. Here are some barriers a little more stout than yours, against which I fired standard pressure 9mm 124 grain Speer Gold Dots out of stock guns.

With respect to Railsplitter’s comments, here are the same barriers shot with .380 Lehigh tipped rounds. I suspect that they would outpenetrate the ammo you were shooting. 9mm should do even better, but I haven’t run that test.

BTW, a .40 S&W 180 grain factory Gold Dot fired against the same array penetrated to the 4th water jug, made a very big hole in the steel, and had a good mushroom on the recovered round. But, that is off topic.

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Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · #36 · 9 d ago (Edited)

2

someguyfromnc said:
My experience is with the gel tests where they DIDN"T expand nicely. Many online gel tests out there to show you if you search for it. Lot of the heavy grain out of short barrel or short barrel ammo tests questionable. The most reliable stuff seems to be standard pressure for whatever reason in lighter loads.

I think this guy nailed it WRT the 147hst. Calibrated gel with denim. His bullets also weighed 148.3gr+.

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Lt. Donn

· #37 · 9 d ago

How about a bone-in pork shoulder... probably cost a few bucks, but might give you a more accurate idea..?

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Steve Urquell

Discussion Starter · #38 · 9 d ago

MedicineBow said:
I, like you, like goofing around with different variables. The game and fish laws applicable to me won’t let me shoot big critters with 9mm rounds, not even as finishers. When it comes to barrier penetration, I really don’t worry about expansion as much as penetration. Here are some barriers a little more stout than yours, against which I fired standard pressure 9mm 124 grain Speer Gold Dots out of stock guns.

With respect to Railsplitter’s comments, here are the same barriers shot with .380 Lehigh tipped rounds. I suspect that they would outpenetrate the ammo you were shooting. 9mm should do even better, but I haven’t run that test.

BTW, a .40 S&W 180 grain factory Gold Dot fired against the same array penetrated to the 4th water jug, made a very big hole in the steel, and had a good mushroom on the recovered round. But, that is off topic.

Very nice! Great vids.

Lt. Donn said:
How about a bone-in pork shoulder... probably cost a few bucks, but might give you a more accurate idea..?

How about some feral hogs at my friend's farm? I'll post results.

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Lt. Donn

· #39 · 9 d ago

Steve Urquell said:
Very nice! Great vids.

How about some feral hogs at my friend's farm? I'll post results.

Even better...please do

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Julius Seizure

· #40 · 9 d ago

Steve Urquell said:
Very nice! Great vids.

How about some feral hogs at my friend's farm? I'll post results.

I’d rather have an invite

Reactions: 1

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