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7.62x39...HP or FMJ...which to use up?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by emt1581, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    A while back I bought a tin of Wolf HP ammo. Yesterday I bought a few thousand rounds of Wolf FMJ.

    I've read that HP ammo in this caliber doesn't typically expand as effectively as other calibers. So I'm thinking that I'd rather have a hard hitting round that tumbles as opposed to one that MIGHT open up a bit.

    What are your thoughts? Which would you use for the range and which would you use for SD/HD, hunting, etc.?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  2. N/Apower

    N/Apower

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    Shoot a few into water-logged phone books or something and pick/choose one. It's half-dozen one or the other in this case, imho.
     

  3. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    Some AK's don't feed hollow points well so check yours and make sure it does. I also think these HP's won't expand like we expect them too. They will probably crush at the tip and yaw which will make them act like FMJ's anyway. If they feed save the HP's. They will either open up or they will act like FMJ and either way they will do the job.
     
  4. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Hmm...that's a good point about feeding. If they don't feed well I'll keep them for range use and keep the FMJ for SD/HD/etc.

    What sucks is I either open the tin up or I don't. Can't close it back up.

    What I might do is over-pay for a single box of HP's at the local gun shop and see how they feed.

    Other than feeding though, I'm wondering if one offers significantly better performance in terms of penetration, trauma/wound channel, etc.?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  5. DonD

    DonD

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    If the Wolf JHP doesn't expand reliably, it has nothing to do with the caliber, it's simply a poorly designed hollowpoint. A properly designed JHP would expand appropriately for the velocities of the 7.62x39. Don
     
  6. Kalmah

    Kalmah Supreme Member

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    "Of note, most of the “cheap” Russian JHP/JSP ammunition offers poor terminal performance. The one that seems to work is the 7.62x39mm Saspan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant; 8M3 bullet)"
    http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=310

    A little more info here...
    http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#7.62x39


    Wolf Military Classic JHP is the only brand that uses the 8M3 bullet. So unless your stash is Military Classic, it's probably not going to matter much. Any other brand of JHP's is not going to perform significantly better than a FMJ round.
     
  7. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Did they put Military Classic in tins?

    I have to dig it out but I'm wondering if it's marked on the outside of the tin?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  8. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Well all I can say is that out of an SKS with the norinco SP and the chinese ammo SP, I got a son that takes deer all the time with them on the ranch out here. I've seen him do neck shots at almost 100yds with it and even the shoulder shot deer are DRT.

    So, FWIW. I can't find fault with that. I even did a 300yd test on the norinco FMJ out of the SKS into a 6" circle. missed by an inch. It was on a bet to my cousin. In his opinion."cheap gun, and cheap ammo.' He shut his mouth after that shot, although it was an inch short.

    I see no reason the ammo mentioed above won't work for you. As much as I hate to say it, FMJ and even some soft point Chech and Russian stuff was used on alot of good boys in Nam as well. This caliber and these loads do more damage than people think. 'I promise you'.

    This info did not come from the internet. It came through experience.





    CanyonMan
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  9. DonD

    DonD

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    The people at Tactical Forums seem to be more obsessed with studies of terminal performance than any forum I am aware of. Their guru, Gary K. Roberts, says that Winchester's 123gr soft points are excellent performers. I think any well designed soft point or JHP will dramatically outperform any FMJ in anything other than hard target such as steel penetration. Don
     
  10. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Are you saying that when it comes to soft target/tissue, distance, accuracy, penetration, etc...the HP is superior to the FMJ??...aside from shooting at steel like car doors and such.

    I've just never heard that claim with ANY caliber before. :dunno:

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  11. DonD

    DonD

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    I'm saying that in most every case, soft points or hollowpoints are far more destructive of tissue and more lethal than FMJs. If that weren't the case FMJs wouldn't be outlawed in most every state for hunting and we'd use typical hunting ammo in combat. FMJs are supposedly used in combat to wound vs kill on the theory that a wounded enemy soldier ties up all sorts of resources in terms of transportation and medical care that a corpse doesn't. Hunting ammo is supposedly the most effective on living creatures.

    Yes, some of the calibers with FMJs yaw and such but they're still very inferior in terms of lethality.

    For Kalmah, your links discussed some of what I said, I focused on the phrase I highlighted. Sorry if I was "over the top" in any way. Don
     
  12. Kalmah

    Kalmah Supreme Member

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    I agree. For terminal ballistics in a soft target, a well designed soft point or hollow point will typically outperform a FMJ.

    But the point of the links is to show that the cheap Russian soft points or hollow points aren't necessarily well designed, and thus don't perform significantly better than FMJ's.
     
  13. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    -Emt1581
     
  14. Kalmah

    Kalmah Supreme Member

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    I don't know if Military Classic was put in tins.

    If it doesn't specify on the tin that it's MC or not, then look for the bullet weight. The Wolf black box JHP's are 122 gr, the MC is 124 gr.
     
  15. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Not totally correct.



    Read my post above. We have seen some nasty holes in deer even out to 100yds with the Chech and Russian SP's. The hollow points have not done that well and aren't much different than FMJ. But not so the SP's.

    In men. The FMJ or any of it, has been plenty enough.



    CanyonMan
     
  16. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    I found my case of Wolf HP today and it's the Performance ammo not the Military Classic.

    I also called around to Cabelas and a few local shops. None have loose boxes of Wolf HP so I can't buy a box and test it in my guns. I wonder why no one sells the HP Wolf ammo if it's superior to the FMJ in any way? :whistling:

    Looks like I'll be cutting open that can for range use soon.

    Thanks!:)

    -Emt1581