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600 tons and temps... some thoughts.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Skyhook, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Skyhook

    Skyhook

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    600 tons: That's the projected weight of that new A380.. I know physics will take care of the business of the thing getting airborne, but 600 Tons! - Good grief! The ground handling tractor for that behemoth, a TBL600, is powered by a 750HP Cummins-

    Temps: High, hot, heavy are the conditions we have all been conditioned to respect and when encountered, we know our planes will require intense attention, but I did not know that operating in hot environments (Iraq, for instance with ambient temps up to 120F) jet transports have to take off with reduced power to prevent the engines from over-heating. Now, consider that H,H,H business with reduced power for take-off... that equates to longer runways- up to 12000'- and often reduced fuel loads.

    Things to ponder...

    (The above stuff was gleaned from my Feb 7 edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology mag.)

    -Hook
     
  2. c6601a

    c6601a

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    Just for reference, what is the max weight for a 747? I seem to recall 425 tons, but I could be off by a bit. I do know that there are certain conditions where certain models of the the 747 can be operated up to 10% above the maximum certified civilian passenger weight.
     

  3. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    high temps & long take off rolls...........that's why when leaving Dubai on my last job the flights always left after midnight
     
  4. Skyhook

    Skyhook

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    Flipper 348, Dubai was featured in that article. I can sympathize with you wanting out of that.
     
  5. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    They have one hell of a long runway but they are not zero-zero as I found out while on a 777 in a holding pattern for over 2 hours due to fog. I might go back to Europe on a skycrane crew but no more middle east for me.
     
  6. dozing4dollars

    dozing4dollars Plasticized ! CLM

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    Its been a couple of years since I have flown the passenger version of the 747-400, but as I recall our max taxi weight was 873,000 # and our max takeoff gross weight was 870,000 # or 435 tons.

    I have heard that Boeing had flown the 747 at takeoff weights in excess of ONE MILLION POUNDS or 500 tons.

    The amazing thing is that the 747-400 is still the fastest and heaviest airliner operating in the skies on a regular basis. I have had one at .91 Mach over Russia trying to get spacing on a United whale.

    What an AMAZING airplane !!;f

    Why Boeing is forfeiting this ultra large jumbo market to Airbus is beyond me. I would think that there could be a market for some derivative of the 747-XXX in the future with new engine technology, fuselage extention, etc.
     
  7. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    There is no longer a market for the 747 as Boeing has put themselves out of the market with the 777. In the two years I worked for Boeing (97-99) we went from five 747s a month to one. You will note that Airbus does not attempt to make a version of the 777..............for the same reason Boeing does not plan a super jumbo. Boeing had a good 36 year run with the 47.
     
  8. dozing4dollars

    dozing4dollars Plasticized ! CLM

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    I think you can find similarities in pax load and range in the Boeing 777-200/300 aircraft and the Airbus 330/340 series. In international markets, some fly in trail of each other across the N. Atlantic and Pacific although each aircraft may serve specific niche markets better.

    Apparently Boeing did some critical review of the 747-XXX based on the following text from a Boeing document that I just found:

    "FUTURE 747 DERIVATIVE AIRPLANES

    Several derivatives are being studied to provide additional capabilities of the 747 family of airplanes.
    Additional seating capacity could be obtained by conventional body extensions or by upper deck extensions. A 31-foot body stretch with a partial stretched upper deck could provide an increase of 150 passengers over the 747-400. Studies have verified that body length increases up to 50 feet are technically feasible. Landing gear wheel base would be modified accordingly. Full-length extension of the upper deck is an alternate method of increasing seating capacity. This could provide 650 total seats without increasing overall body length. Double deck configurations with moderate body extensions could provide mixed-class seating capacities in excess of 700.
    Where current range capability can be traded for increased payloads, existing maximum gross weight will suffice and no wing dimensional changes are necessary. Where range must be maintained with substantial payload increases, gross weights close to 1,000,000 pounds are possible with new-generation wings, with potential increases in wingspan. As airplane weight and size increase, planned thrust growth of current engines will provide takeoff performance equal to or greater than that of current models, and the required pavement thickness can be controlled by landing gear configurations.
    Future growth versions could also require increased tail heights depending on body length, engine size, and more outboard engine placement resulting from the increased wingspan.
    The above discussion covers 747 growth possibilities. Whether and/or when these or other possibilities are actually built is entirely dependent on future airline requirements. In any event, the impact on airport facilities will be a consideration in configuration and design.
    D6-58326-1
    186 DECEMBER 2002 "

    I guess they decided the market wasn't there for this derivative airplane and the 7E7 was the airplane Boeing wanted to market and build.
     
  9. Skyhook

    Skyhook

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    I can't help wondering whether the A380 will soon be the 'New Spruce Goose'. If Boeing saw no niche for that size acft, either Boeing is looking the other way or they're right. Time will tell.
     
  10. CaptainOveur

    CaptainOveur

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    Boeing has some aces up their sleeve. They have a 747 varation that has a full length upper deck with a new wing, it's been designed and boeing has been toying with the idea for a few years. Believe you me, if the A380 really "takes off", I'd suspect the boeing "super-747" would not be far behind. They are probably just being quiet about this and trying to see where it will go. If they do announce this, they'll probably try to make it sound like a "bombshell" and use the "we've had this idea all along" line...


    Edit: Dang! looks like someone beat me too it! ;)
     
  11. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    On paper only and they are 2 very different designs. The 777 has 1/2 of the engines and a bigger cabin.

    Boeing designed the 777 to replace aging DC-10s and it worked perfectly. A little too well though as many 747 operators opted for the 777 as a replacement airframe.
     
  12. flygirl

    flygirl

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    The 747-400 freighter max TOW is aprox 394,625kgs. Not sure what the PAX birds can weigh. Can't be much different.
     
  13. PilotKitten

    PilotKitten Mrs. MrMurphy

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    While I think the A380 will find it's own niche in the market I truly think that Boeing is heading in the right direction with the 787... especially if Open Skies ever becomes a reality.