5 rounds, one more time...

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by yep380, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Danielsuzuki

    Danielsuzuki Happiness is where you find it

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    Hey Fred!
    I’ve really enjoyed your opinions in this thread - just wanted to say that.
    My greater concern here in Houston is a surprise outbreak of unrest. It’s getting really crazy out here. I’m in residential services - so gotta work, but I’m pretty concerned.
     
  2. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Then they would be wrong.

    Loaded with +P or +P+ 115-127 GRN JHP's the 9mm will rival the 357 mag for effectiveness, that is way better than any 38 Special load.
     

  3. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    The area become a bit fuzzy in those days, what with the introduction of Super Vel .38SPL, and then the later Treasury Load 110gr .38SPL +P+), which was also issued by the CHP as an alternate load to .357MAG (if an officer couldn't qual with the MAG load, or some field office captain didn't want it issued, or it wasn't inventoried).

    Remember the W-W 147gr .38SPL +P JHP? (I saved about a box and a half of that load, just out of curiosity, along with maybe 3/4's of a box of the Federal 158gr Nylcad LSWCHP +P. ;) I shot up all of my older 125gr Nyclad Chiefs Load, though. )

    While I never cared for the 110gr MAG or +P+ loads for my own carry use, I rather thought of them as being kinda similar to the 9mm 115gr JHP +P+ load.

    I came to look at the hot W-W 127gr +P+ 9mm load as being more or less equivalent to the 125gr .357MAG fired from a snub nose revolver. While the revolver bullets could fragment (when pushed to MAG velocities), the 9mm SXT pistol bullet would stay together but offer some pointy bits in its expansion.

    The 115gr +P+ offered another 50-100fps than the SXT's 127gr load (depending on the brand, as well as the barrel length involved), but the 127gr bullet seemed to do fairly well, even at velocities dropping below 1200fps (like when fired out of a 3" barreled CS9 and only hitting the high 1100's).

    Then, W-W told LE customers that the revised SXT bullet had been tweaked so the velocity window for expansion was lower, to take into consideration the shorter barreled pistols being favored by cops for plainclothes and off-duty use. If I remember right, that was the "second gen" of the SXT, in the mid-to-late 90's? Just about the time the Symbol Code on the corner of the 50rd boxes was changed from RA9STXP to RA9TA (although the label description elsewhere on the box end flap still said SXT). It's been some years.
     
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  4. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    I have some +P 158 LSWCHP's and some +P+ 147 grn hydroshock 38's. Neither are anywhere close to a 357 mag.
     
  5. yep380

    yep380

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  6. Danielsuzuki

    Danielsuzuki Happiness is where you find it

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    Jeez that’s stout for a 158 - wonder what it does out of a 4” barrel...

    I have their +p+ 124 gold dot, at 1300 FPS (Box velocity) you can tell they’re in there!
     
  7. yep380

    yep380

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    I bought a box of 20, figured I’d pocket carry my 438 as a backup during deer season. Loaded up a cylinder full at the range to confirm function... I still have 19 rounds left.
     
  8. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Nope. Not even if the .357 is fired out of a 2" snub. ;)

    They both still fall below 1000fps out of 4" barrels.

    However, the 158gr LSWCHP (or LHP) +P did establish a decent reputation for itself, even out of 2" (or thereabouts) snubs. Enough mass to push penetration, and the softer lead versions would often deform, if not actually expand.

    I didn't understand why Winchester offered that 147gr JHP +P, let alone why Federal bothered with their 147gr Hydra-Shok in +P+. I remember thinking it was probably along the lines of "Hey, we've already got the bullet", and then, "Let's make it, because LE will probably buy it if we package it right." :p
     
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  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well we shouldnt be out in a period of social unrest. I as close enough to the rodney king riots to be aware & not be there. If it was danger close, then a long gun. If I had to travel in that area, then long gun in the trunk, service size gun & multiple mags.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
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  10. Danielsuzuki

    Danielsuzuki Happiness is where you find it

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    I couldn’t agree more - already implemented my friend.
     
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  11. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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  12. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Might as well try to judge whether the cop ought to have quickly decided to change his tactics to attempting an aimed "failure-to-stop" shot/hit after the first 2-4 COM hits didn't stop the suspect's volitional actions.
     
  13. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Well multiple- maybe 10 COM hits took 14 seconds to bring him down. Not a lot of people can remember every tactic under that kind of stress.
     
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  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Training, training & training. It can help ingrain "remembering".

    The video states 13 shots were fired at the suspect, but doesn't state how many were hits (and how many went off toward the apt walls and windows behind the suspect). The anatomical placement of the hits that were made probably were a factor, too.

    The use of cover and distancing might've been done differently in the heat of the moment by other folks, too. Taking cover and giving the armed suspect the room and time to decide what he wants to do, especially when he's able to control his access and actions toward what appears to be a downed victim, may not work out well all the time.
     
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  15. yep380

    yep380

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    If anyone is interested in those J-Clip speed loaders, I posted some info and pics here: https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/j-clip-speedloader.1820314/

    As far as the posted video, I have no comment on the officer's actions as I'm not qualified to even have an opinion on those matters. I will say it looked like he scored several COM hits, one or several of which ultimately ended the fight. It looked like a tough situation to unpack for the officer and I'm impressed that he did such a good job under the circumstances.

    I wonder if the politically charged, anti-cop attitude that seems so prevalent now weighed into his decision to hold off on engaging until the last minute. I certainly felt he would have been justified in shooting earlier, but again, I'm not qualified to make that call.
     
  16. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    This is one example..

    it means next to nothing without some substantial data to back up whatever assertion you are making. We get it.. the 357 is better. I thought we settled that pages ago.
     
  17. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    This was not a 357.
     
  18. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Those are pretty nifty.
     
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  19. yep380

    yep380

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    I'm sure they'd work for a .357 JFrame (ouch) too. :D
     
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  20. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    I realize that .. its wasn't a 38 either. I took your point to be critical of how many shots are needed to stop a threat. Again, your video is but one example.. it doesn't mean much by itself.