5 rounds, one more time...

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by yep380, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. yep380

    yep380

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  2. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    You should re-think it. I hope you make the switch. But everyone has to make their own choices.
     
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  3. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    I believe more important than the gun itself is the number of defenders you have who are capable of and available to protect the home. I would rather have 2 defenders (ie: husband and wife) each armed with .38 revolvers than only 1 defender armed with a hi-cap pistol.

    As for choice of weapon (revolver, low-cap pistol, hi-cap pistol or long gun), so long as they're competent with it and have the mindset to use it, I'm not second guessing.
     
  4. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    The only way my wife is getting involved in a HD situation is if she is covering my back against additional intruders, or I am dead.
     
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  5. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Thats what my 12ga is for and shes quite good with it.
     
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  6. fredj338

    fredj338

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    For the vast majority of us, carry a gun is about feeling comfy, we'll never need it or use it. For those that I have talked to about their gun fights, mostly LEO, they never wanted less ammo. My comfort level is 9rds. Not that I think I will miss but that crap happens & it may take more than 5rds. A determined attacker can be just that, determined to reach & kill you. Carrying more rds is a mild inconvenience.
     
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  7. yep380

    yep380

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    From the OP, the husband and wife were home. The wife eventually ended the fight after retrieving the second 38. The husband went out to investigate the disturbance with no firearm. The wife, who was injured was able to retrieve the first 38 and give it to her husband, who had engaged the home invader.

    From the OP; there were actually two intruders, the second one scrammed when he heard gunshots. The getaway driver (third criminal at the scene) also took off.

    The other takeaway from this is the aftermath and impact on the Coker family. Even though they were selected somewhat randomly, they continued to suffer after the original incident.
     
  8. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    If you use a handgun that holds 5 shots, instead of 7 shots (or even 15 shots), your "margin of error" for misses versus effective hits becomes smaller. The victim only got one vital hit and one peripheral hit out of five rounds fired from that first .38 snub. One of the shots fired from second revolver hit the suspect in the neck/spine, and another hit the head, but apparently failed to penetrate the skull and traveled under the skin (not a rare thing to see reported).

    The importance of raising a handgun up to your line of sight can't be stressed enough (if the circumstances permit it, of course) if you really hope to get accurate hits. Those accurate hits need to hit critical tissues, structures and organs, too.

    Yep, loss of consciousness via exsanguination from a GSW may not be nearly as quick (or as effective in rapidly stopping a threat) as a hit that penetrates to the CNS.

    The article states the victim chose to replace his Firestar .45 (7rd mag?) with a Springfield XD Mod 2 .45 (which uses 5rd & 6rd mags?). However, he also decided to get a 12GA shotgun.

    Whenever I carry one of my revolvers or single stack pistols that only hold 5-8 rounds (and use them for home use), I always keep in mind that hits must be accurately placed, in a sufficiently timely manner.

    The last couple of days I've had one of my M&P 340's available for pocket holster carry outside the house, and my 4513TSW ("original" model that uses 6rd mags) available for "house" use.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  9. Mister X

    Mister X

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    I own both snub revolvers and high capacity autoloaders. Each has certain strengths and weaknesses and what’s best depends on the individual and the specific circumstances. I usually prefer a snub for carry and a Glock for home defense although the snubs often still play a role for home defense which would be any situation where a contact scenario becomes likely.

    You could make the case that a hammerless snub revolver would have been the ideal weapon for the wife during the initial confrontation. You could also use this incident to advocate for carrying at home, staging weapons in different locations and the need for H2H skills and integrated close-quarter firearm skills and training in general.

    Plus it’s only one incident. For me, it changes nothing but simply reaffirms the perspective I already had.
     
  10. yep380

    yep380

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    The XD Mod.2 in 45 is a solid gun (I have one). Comes with 9rd and 13rd mags. I had initially read that as an "XDS" Mod.2 - which would be a low capacity gun.

    The Mossberg 500 12 gauge was a good add.
     
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  11. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Thanks. I'm not particularly interested in the XD line, so I was unfamiliar which Mod.2 was being referenced.
     
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  12. yep380

    yep380

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    A 5-shot snub, or any gun, would have helped the wife in the initial confrontation. Unfortunately she was in her dining room getting dressed to avoid waking the husband and grandson. She may not have had time to employ the weapon when she was attacked.

    The husband, unfortunately, ran out of the bedroom unarmed as he didn't understand what his wife was screaming (which turned out to be "get your gun!"). By the time he saw what was happening, it was too late to go back for his gun.

    The other thing that comes to mind when I read this story is it's a case where caution is also needed. The grandson is in the house - reacting to a noise with a loaded firearm can be a very, very, very bad decision.
     
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  13. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Yep. (The expression, not your forum name. ;) )

    Misses of the intended threat target are still going hit something, or someone. Even a peripheral "hit" might pass through a shallow anatomical area and go on to hit something/someone behind the threat. That threat potential was always in my mind whether I was working or at home with our children, and now when our grandchildren are present overnight.
     
  14. Mister X

    Mister X

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    Could she have likely kept an autoloader operational in a scenario like she was involved in? I doubt do myself. There’s always the possibility of needing to access your weapon while under attack at contact range. Even at home. From my perspective, not many gun guys give that possibility much attention and the ones that do don’t come up with very many workable solutions. It’s a very demanding and difficult skill-set to learn and maybe why it’s often ignored despite being the most crucial area to seek out professional training in if someone is inclined to do so. And despite many trying to ignore the issue, a lot of people will say it’s simply a training issue, but I have yet to see very many of the prolific defensive shooting instructors who also teach ECQ shooting methods able to teach students or demonstrate themselves that they can keep an autoloader up and running during contact scenario force-on-force drills with any regularity. With its inherent advantages and the probability of me needing to access and/or use my firearm at contact range is why I myself usually choose to carry a hammerless snub and if carrying at home, an air weight J-frame is not much of an inconvenience and ideally suited for situations where you have very little time and distance on your side. The same could be said about staging weapons.
     
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  15. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    A snub for carry is one thing but for HD is quite another. And yeah, they were EXTREMELY lucky the perp was an absolute moron loading 9mm into a .40. I don't see how that situation wouldn't have turned out very differently otherwise.
     
  16. Valmet

    Valmet M62/76 Silver Member

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    I sometimes ccw a S&W Airweight in the summertime but don’t feel it viable as an HD weapon. I’m fortunate that I don’t have to rely on it for that as I have other firearms for that purpose.
     
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  17. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Well, just looking at it from a tactical and preparedness perspective ...

    Someone breaking into a house in the middle of the night, to commit a serious crime, armed with a pistol equipped with an extended magazine and willing to use it against anyone they encountered, might be "better prepared" to inflict and carry out a criminal act, including the use of serious injury or death, than someone reacting by awaking from a sound sleep and going out to check on a noise in an unprepared manner. Not sure how it would matter what make/model/caliber of firearm the victim had left behind in the bedroom, safe, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  18. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Also, back in the days of carrying a service revolver at work, I often used it for off-duty carry and having it accessible at home at night. That gave me 6 shots.

    Of course, there were times I used my Commander for off-duty, as it gave me a higher capacity of 7rds. ;) or, I was carrying one of my own 6-shot revolvers on my own time.

    The necessity and ability to make accurate hits, even when surprised and under stress, hasn't changed since those days.
     
  19. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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  20. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    I was responding to the first line of your post I quoted.

    Were you thinking if the inherent 5 round limitation in the 5-shot snub, or the short barrel, making it less desirable for "home defense"?