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45 Super or 10mm - Woods Side Arm - Conversion?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by firemedic1343, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. coltc

    coltc

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    I looked all through my computer and can't find those pics. They are around somewhere but I think they are on my other system. I won't have access to them for about another month or so. I had them posted on here a couple of years back, maybe someone copied them and can post in the mean time. If not, I'll attempt to dig them up, but it may be a while.
     
  2. Mountain10mm

    Mountain10mm

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    Be careful about Double Tap. No doubt it's great ammo, it's been reliable and accurate for me, but actual velocity is no where near the published values. Buy/borrow a chronograph and check for yourself.

    To the OP, my vote is a G20 or G20SF. It holds 15 rounds of 10mm in a package the same size as a Colt Commander, only a little thicker. It's hard to beat.

    Does anyone shoot 45 Winchester Magnums anymore? If I remember correctly, they would do about what a 44 magnum could do, but out of a semi auto. Is LAR Grizzley and Wildley still around?
     

  3. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger

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    I really like the 45 Super and have three converted guns to 45 Super.
    My G21SF works great with modifications, most of those have been mentioned. I just like the 45 and carried a 4506 on duty for years. It now shoots 45 Super great. All of my converted guns can shoot 45ACP with no changes.

    BUT, if what you say is true, about you being very unfamiliar with guns or at least pistols, I would recommend the easy way and just buy, or use, a G20 10mm. If you use good, kind of "Hot' 10mm loadings, they are very close to the same power overall.
     
  4. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

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    Thanks for the input. Out of curiosity, what have you done to your 21?
     
  5. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger

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    This is basically what I posted in a similar thread recently!
    To convert my Glock 21SF to fire both 45ACP and 45 Super I use a 22 lb recoil spring AND a recoil buffer. I also use a stock barrel. I also have installed a more powerful magazine spring to assist in feeding!

    With the added pressure, even with a 22 lb recoil spring and a recoil buffer, the slide is going to hit harder than stock. Pressure is about 21,000 psi for a 45ACP, about 23,000 psi for a 45 +P and about 28,000 psi for a 45 Super. Compare this to about 37 to 38,000 psi for a 10mm!

    I get my 45 Super from Buffalo Bore, Midway BB for less and SwampFox has just told me they are going to begin loading 45 Super. (they already have it listed) I also have a friend that reloads for me when he can!

    This is for limited use of 45 Super, 500 to 1,000 rounds a year at most.

    Good luck. And I would like to add that if you are not "into" working on guns and commit yourself to learning a little more than the basics I would take the easy path, namely a 10mm. I just really like the good old reliable 45. That's also why I ride a Harley! :supergrin:
     
  6. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

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    How does the 22lb recoil work with regular and +P loads? Have you tried a 24lb?

    Which mag spring are you using for the super? Did you have feeding problems with the stock mag spring.
     
  7. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

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    I'm thinking of either 22 or 24, is that around what you are using?
     
  8. coltc

    coltc

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    If I remember right it was a 21 or 22 lb.
     
  9. NW-Warlord

    NW-Warlord

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  10. hoffy

    hoffy

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    I would go for a G-20(sf is hand size is a problem) and you can always buy the long Glock barrel. I worked at a gun shop in the '80s and the original Norma 10mm load was pretty hot, chucked the front sights off the first Delta Elites, but so long out of production, even if you found some at a show, who knows how it was kept. I have shot LARs and Wildeys, and both are big, the Wildey being bigger, but softer recoil. Those are getting to be Desert Eagle size..... I am an old fogey, never tried Double Tap, use Winchester Silvertips for carry, handloads would be used for woods, with serious FMJs...
     
  11. TKM

    TKM Shiny Member Lifetime Member

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    460 Rowland if you are serious about it. Too powerful to put into a Glock. I have the Glock 10s and enjoy them to the max.

    Doubletap ammo, not a fan. Had a full case head separation in a brand new Kimber 10mm. several years ago. I sent in the remainder of the ammo and the pieces of the broken cartridge. Foolishly assuming that Mcnett would get back to me. I have yet to receive a postcard wishing me well or telling me to get bent. I cut up my Double Tap tee shirt and used it for patches.

    If I have to spend time with a pointy object digging your crap ammo out of my shiny new thousand dollar pistol I expect some kind of response.

    Rowland and Clark have both been great and I can't recommend them enough.
     
  12. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    This is something I was considering. I know Rowland back last March said he was working on a Glock conversion, then nothing. I even shot him an e-mail, no response. So, I am seriously considering getting an XD .45 tatical and getting the Wild West Guns conversion kit for it. I would have prefered the Glock weapon system, but, apparently, it isn't happening as far as a conversion kit.
     
  13. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

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    http://460rowland.com/can-a-glock-be-set-up-to-handle-the-460/
     
  14. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

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    First of all I would highly encourage all woodsmen to reload. Get into reloading, its going to save you money if you shoot even moderate levels. It also makes shooting a lot more fun.

    Second of all, I would recommend 10mm. If you can kill it with a big magnum wheelgun, you can kill it with a 10mm using the right handloaded bullet. Seriously - see below.

    I have RELOADED and CHRONOGRAPHED ammo EXCEEDING 1,000 FOOT POUNDS OF ENERGY in my Glock 29 (it does have an aftermarket extended barrel though) - AND THAT WASN'T EVEN A MAXIMUM BOOK LOAD! (but it was pretty close and I don't recommend running those loads on a regular basis)

    I have also chronographed double tap loads - and the advertised figures are consistently LOW!

    Finally, I work and live in the woods - in bear country. I have seen bears in my back yard within 25y of my house more than once in the past. I'm not afraid of bears at all and don't ever suspect they will be a problem, but if you're going to insist preparing to do battle with one, get an aftermarket barrel and load up some Hard cast lead 200grain bullets as fast as possible within reasonable safe limits. There is nothing in the woods other than rock or a big dia. tree that will stop these rounds making a through and through.

    They will go right through a Grizzly bear or Polar bear, and if they don't they are sure to do a significant amount of damage to them - unlike any other "service caliber".

    The Norwegian special forces issues Glock 20s to their troops in Polar bear country as they learned that multiple shots from a 9mm was ineffective on a polar bear.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  15. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

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  16. Heavy Haulin

    Heavy Haulin Colonol Angus

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    Alright I finally got in here....:supergrin:

    I got a 20 SF on the way, and I plan on it replacing my .45 ACP as my backwoods carry. I'm already setup to load 10mm on the Dillon, but a few questions have been nagging.

    I only plan on running fairly hot loads pushin 200 gr WFNGC's, as this is just for backwoods carry, were there is a decent population of black bears, and tweekers...

    #1- Hard cast through a factory GLock barrel? Seems like 50/50 yay, nay. Can hot loaded cases fired from a factory barrel be reloaded?

    #2- Reliability of aftermarket barrel? I really want the extra thunder from an aftermarket barrel, but not at the risk of reliability. I also wanted to reload the cases, but again, not at the risk of reliability.

    #3 - Guide rod and spring?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  17. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    A 10mm just sounds a lot easier.
     
  18. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

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    :welcome:

    You are supposed to get more life out of your brass if you use a tighter aftermarket bbl.

    For hot 10mm loads, many people use a 22-24 lb spring.
     
  19. Cycletroll

    Cycletroll

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    I know the 10mm is a highly effective round and loved by many however I just want to throw in my two cents in favor of .45 super. 10mm is only really a monster cartridge if you hanload. Yeah, you can buy Doubletap or Buffalo Bore but it is expensive and less available on short notice and fewer options than if you handload.
    So, if we compare handloaded .45 super and handloaded 10mm we have some interesting data. 1st off, component availablilty. The .451 wins handily here. Many loads from 150 to 265gr in hardcast, jacketed, HP, TC etc. Also tends to be easier to get a comparable substitute if your favorite projectile is out of stock. Also, very few bullets are designed to handle the velocity of Nuclear 10mm loads. Most .40 bullets disintegrate if driven to uber velocities.
    The 10mm does have admirable sectional density but in looking at say the 200 WFNGC you have a SD of .178; a 250gr .45 is .176 and a 265gr BTB WFNGC is .187. At a given velocity the heavier .45 carries more momentum and punches a bigger hole. Yeah, you can drive the 10mm faster but a .250gr .45@ 1100fps is a monster penetrator and fairly mellow to shoot.
    I have loaded a 265gr with standard Winchester brass to 1000fps out of a stock Glock 21 barrel. With a fully supported barrel 1150 is quite doable.

    The really nice thing about .45 Super is that with my 21sf and stock barrel with 24# spring I can shoot the majority of 45ACP loads which function great or load with thumper Super handloads too. The only critters I would need the full power of hot loads with Super brass and a fully supported chamber would be large brown bears or moose.

    I have loaded hot .40 diameter bullets and I find a 180 or 200gr @ 12-1300 far more unpleasant to shoot than .45 265@1100. Plus the .45 is noticeably more accurate. Also, at distance the heavier bullets retain more momentum. Yeah, they are not as flat shooting but I can hit the steel chickens at 100 yds consistently and that is flat enough. No one defends themselves from bears or lions at 200yds!

    In short, the old .45 is more flexible, more accurate, and way easier to find brass and components for. Also, bear in mind, the .45 does more work at lower preassure. A 25kpsi load is monstrously effective and brass lasts a long time. I think people get too hung up on velocity and ft. pounds of energy. The .45 Colt has proven to be very effective on large animals and the .45 super is very similar. Just 13+1 in the ol Glock 21!
    JMHO
     
  20. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger

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    Great post. I agree with everything and you said. You said what I was attempting to say, only better.

    I really like the 45 Super 255 grain Hardcast SWC at 1075 fps.