[nikerret]

Deer are tougher than people. A deer can take a 12ga slug through the chest and still run away to die. A human shot side to side through both lungs with a slug "ain't goin' nowhere". Due to natural flight instinct, adrenaline, and quadriped balance and agility, a deer is just harder to drop.

Deer aren't tougher. Where they excel is in their instincts versus the humans ability to reason. From the data I've seen, most gunfights are stopped when one side stops fighting, not when one side is incapable of fighting. Deer don't play by those rules. They run like hell or fight. The vast majority of the time, they run like hell, as you stated. Likely, to die elsewhere.

If the .45 ACP is so good for a 250-lb felon, why wouldn't it be good for a 200-lb deer at 50 yards or closer?

When deer hunting, one shot is preferred as the rest will be after a fleeing target and any hits will further damage the meat.

When defending against a "250 pound felon", sending more than a few rounds is more feasible and your concern is survival, not salvage.

 

[fredj338]

The biggest .45 ACP fan I know shot a deer squarely with his trusty .45 ACP Federal HST. Off went the deer, never to be seen again. Tracking failed. Daylight faded. And he never again hunted deer with his .45 ACP. An anecdotal story, but another data point for you to consider.

For hunting, rifle or pistol, I want an entry & exit. The HST isn't likely to exit a deer unless you get a perfect broadside shot & miss the ribs. Even then it may not make it through 200# deer. Why the XTP would be a better tool.

 

[fredj338]

If the .45 ACP is so good for a 250-lb felon, why wouldn't it be good for a 200-lb deer at 50 yards or closer?

See my post above. If I shoot a bad guy & he runs away to die, I have solved my problem. If I shoot a deer & he runs away to die, I have a bigger problem.

 

[THREE PERCENT]

See my post above. If I shoot a bad guy & he runs away to die, I have solved my problem. If I shoot a deer & he runs away to die, I have a bigger problem.

Shooting a bad guy and he runs away I would say you're lucky because your shot placement was bad lol.

And I fully agree a wounded animal sucks and we owe it to them for a quick kill. Ive killed a whole bunch of things with 45 acp. Things much bigger then deer and I know that with any caliber, if your shot isn't placed correct and your bullet isn't a deep penetrating tough one, things can suck real quick.

HST is great for humans, even though they are quick to expand they penetrate enough for that job. Humans and Deer just aren't the same. Not meaning weight etc, it's just a deer is quick to move and a click of a safety can end up with a missed or badly placed shot or opportunity, they're in tune with their surroundings. A typical person will stop and think what is that, too late lol.

 

[fredj338]

Shooting a bad guy and he runs away I would say you're lucky because your shot placement was bad lol.

And I fully agree a wounded animal sucks and we owe it to them for a quick kill. Ive killed a whole bunch of things with 45 acp. Things much bigger then deer and I know that with any caliber, if your shot isn't placed correct and your bullet isn't a deep penetrating tough one, things can suck real quick.

HST is great for humans, even though they are quick to expand they penetrate enough for that job. Humans and Deer just aren't the same. Not meaning weight etc, it's just a deer is quick to move and a click of a safety can end up with a missed or badly placed shot or opportunity, they're in tune with their surroundings. A typical person will stop and think what is that, too late lol.

Well plenty of bad guys have taken multiple com hits with everything hand carried & & continued to fight or run off. Even with self defense calibers, i would rather a bullet just exit, two holes bleed faster than one. Personnally, i would rather have the hst expand just a bit less for deeper penetration. All defensive shots arent always going thru the front of the chest.
Lastly, a calm feeding deer is not am amped up 250# bad guy. While i would hunt deer or hogs with a 45acp, right bullet & conditions, there are better tools.

 

[THREE PERCENT]

Well plenty of bad guys have taken multiple com hits with everything hand carried & & continued to fight or run off. Even with self defense calibers, i would rather a bullet just exit, two holes bleed faster than one. Personnally, i would rather have the hst expand just a bit less fie deeper penetration. All defensive shots arent always going thru the front of the chest.
Lastly, a calm feeding deer is not am amped up 250# bad guy. While i would hunt deer or hogs with a 45acp, right bullet & conditions, there are better tools.

And I can make this case with every handgun caliber out there, even rifles ...I've seen a a 200 pound black bear obsorb four 180 grain 30-06 rounds before it finally died, yet that same bullet and caliber has taken many many elk over the many many years and still does today...Deer usually aren't calm most times, most times they are amped up they just don't shown it...

And yes a amped up bad guy can take many hits, even with a 12 gauge yet we all know how great the 12 gauge is...

It's a endless debate, know your limits and your skill set before venturing out into the unknown.

 

[RVER]

I want a LARGE exit hole to aid in tracking.
A .45ACP JHP won't do that reliably.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[agtman]

I want a LARGE exit hole to aid in tracking.
A .45ACP JHP won't do that reliably.

And for sure don’t try stopping a bear with a .45acp.

Check it out … Veteran black-bear guide, armed with a 10mm Kimber, had to track and dispatch a huge bear (700-pounder) that a poor-shooting client had only wounded. The bear ended up taking like, 14 hits of .45acp and exactly none (!) penetrated through its fur and fat into the vitals.

Only several uber-heroic rounds of Best Meter from the guide’s blaster could stop this rampaging beastie.

👆 👍

 

[BRabbit]

Back 10+ years ago I had to get a tracking dog and find a large mature doe (135lbs) that was wounded, (scope mount was loose and round went low right and destroyed her front legs). She jumped a fence and disappeared into a thicket right at dusk. She made it about 50 yards and hid in a ditch. When the dog and I found her I put her down from about 10 feet with a G21 and some very hot Double Tap 230 grain JHP ammo. The round entered one side and exited the other, destroying the shoulder roast with a huge exit hole. That is an impressive performance on a large doe and a round I wouldn't hesitate to use if hunting a whitetail at a reasonable distance.

 

[fredj338]

I want a LARGE exit hole to aid in tracking.
A .45ACP JHP won't do that reliably.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

No but a wnfp solid will. 45acp wouldnt be my first choice but it can be made to work. A 230gr XTP running 950fs will likely not stop on a doube lung shot.

 

[KS-G21-Fan]

No but a wnfp solid will. 45acp wouldnt be my first choice but it can be made to work. A 230gr XTP running 950fs will likely not stop on a doube lung shot.

I suspect some of my 275 grain FNs out of my 1911 45 Super would go straight through most mammals in North America.

But I also know Fredj338 isn't much a fan of overpressure 45 acp loads so we'll just leave it at that....



Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Matteo1371]

I know of a few hunting with AR-45's.

 

[fredj338]

I suspect some of my 275 grain FNs out of my 1911 45 Super would go straight through most mammals in North America.

But I also know Fredj338 isn't much a fan of overpressure 45 acp loads so we'll just leave it at that....



Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

For hunting, sure max it out. For SD with jhp, no, not much gain for the recoil.

 

[Leon94]

Deer aren't tougher. Where they excel is in their instincts versus the humans ability to reason. From the data I've seen, most gunfights are stopped when one side stops fighting, not when one side is incapable of fighting. Deer don't play by those rules. They run like hell or fight. The vast majority of the time, they run like hell, as you stated. Likely, to die elsewhere.



When deer hunting, one shot is preferred as the rest will be after a fleeing target and any hits will further damage the meat.

When defending against a "250 pound felon", sending more than a few rounds is more feasible and your concern is survival, not salvage.

Absolutely, put more rounds downrange. Unless you plan to eat the felon, don't worry about the meat.

 

[CanyonMan]

If you are a hand loader, and IF 'you're shooter' will eat 'em, a 230gr hard cast WFN and Heavy Power Pistol, or 200 gr HC, or 230 gr XTP, w/PP load.... will drill any deer out there nice and clean if you do your part out to 50 yards, and 'no sweat' closer in... Have fun.

All my PP loads here, are very stout (safe) but stout. I won't print them, but 7.5 grs is max, and I'm 'all over that area'...

ssaw

CM
✝

 

[fredj338]

If you are a hand loader, and IF 'you're shooter' will eat 'em, a 230gr hard cast WFN and Heavy Power Pistol, or 200 gr HC, or 230 gr XTP, w/PP load.... will drill any deer out there nice and clean if you do your part out to 50 yards, and 'no sweat' closer in... Have fun.

All my PP loads here, are very stout (safe) but stout. I won't print them, but 7.5 grs is max, and I'm 'all over that area'...

ssaw

CM
✝

Not hard to get a 250 xtp to 900fps in a 5” 1911. Though i doubt it gives you much over a 230gr running 950?

 

[CanyonMan]

Not hard to get a 250 xtp to 900fps in a 5” 1911. Though i doubt it gives you much over a 230gr running 950?

Hey amigo how ya been?! Right. Plus, we're talking honest ranges of under 50 yards most of the time anyway... So, that extra few fps isn't a real big deal with the hard cast especially, or the xtp... Also the 230 yr bullet, is probably going to feed/function better in most 1911's anyway..

saw

CM
✝

 

[JackRyan]

May have been discussed here before but does anyone hunt with their 45 acp for whitetails at closer ranges (35 yards)?

If so what loads and what gun/barrel combo?

Thanks in advance

Why? What would be the point of it?

 

[M 7]

May have been discussed here before but does anyone hunt with their 45 acp for whitetails at closer ranges (35 yards)?

If so what loads and what gun/barrel combo?

Thanks in advance

No, no, no, no...

You're going about this all wrong!

Just use a 9mm.

''A 9mm blows the lung out of the body.'' ―Joe Biden

 

[JD-9.3]

230 grain black talon after going through both shoulders of a whitetail and stopping at the offside hide , 30yards . I typically use hardcast though