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Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by rogn, Oct 24, 2020.
It is exactly the same thing.
I agree. If they had not voted Green in 2016, we'd be complaining about President Clinton's chances for reelection and telling stories about the guns we used to own.
Likewise, that is exactly why people on our side need to vote to win.
The election to president is a state by state affair. My vote in California is wasted no matter who I vote for.
Now if I moved to NV it might actually make a difference. But that time is closing fast. In Idaho that might put things off for a bit.
A good point. I don't recall ever seeing a Libertarian candidate for lower offices around here. They seem to think U.S. Representative is an entry-level job.
In many ways, Trump is a third party candidate who won, and was attacked by both major parties at least at first.
Once they legalized weed, the Libertarians all seem to have disappeared.
If gun owners vote 3rd party that is a vote for socialist tyranny and gun control. If a leftist/ progressive type votes 3rd party that is a vote to save our country.
He did it in a smart way, he ran in one of the two major parties. If you can't win a primary it is hard to win the general election. With proper timing Ross Perot could have done that.
but but Muh principles.
They just don't get simple math.
The reality is that either Trump or Biden (Harris) WILL be your next President, like it or not. Support and vote for the one of those two who most nearly matches your preference for the direction our nation will take over the next four years. The differences between these candidates are very clear and will have tremendous effects. I and many others believe this is the most important election of our lifetime.
I guess for third-party supporters it comes down to which is the more important priority for you and your loved ones:
A) The fate of our nation which WILL be directed by either a Trump or Biden (Harris) presidency.
B) Making an anonymous statement by voting for a candidate with zero chances of winning, which directly helps the candidate who is your least-favorite by depriving your second-favorite candidate (and who could actually win) of a much needed vote.
Realistically, whether it's "fair" or "right" or not, you really only have two choices of who will actually become your next President. Vote wisely.
Guys like you put Bill Clinton in the White House.
There will be only two NFL teams in the Super Bowl, and anyone who keeps cheering for a third choice will be instantly recognized as a fool.
I was told today that the Libertarian vote doesn't exist. I don't expect to hear any more complaints moving forward...
I expect if we did elect enough Democrat to Congress to legalize it, they'd stop showing up for Congress a week later.
Yes, but I for one am sure glad he finally saw the light. MAGA!!!!
Likewise, Rand Paul is the most Libertarian politician in Congress, but he got there by running as a Republican.
Oddly enough, Kentucky Democrats attack him like rabid dogs, while they actually agree with him on most non-economic issues.
Since becoming president, Trump has:
Openly embraced Nancy Pelosi’s gun-control agenda
Banned bump stocks via executive order
Pushed for enhanced background checks
Proposed expanding red flag laws on a national level
As someone who has shown himself to be a threat to the entire Constitution, Trump has gone after other parts of the Bill of Rights — such as the right to privacy and the right to due process — to advance his pro-gun control, anti-Second Amendment agenda, such as:
Suggesting law enforcement ignore due process rights to make it easier for the government to seize guns
Proposing social media companies develop tracking tools to “detect mass shooters before they strike”
Having his DOJ take Google and Apple to court in an attempt to force them to turn over personal information on users of a phone app that calibrates rifle scopes
Proposing the creation of a phone app to conduct remote background checks via the NICS system that would give government greater access to personal information without due process and eventually lead to the creation of a de facto national gun registry
In a recent report by Michael Maharrey for the Tenth Amendment Center, we find more evidence of Trump’s pro-gun control, anti-Second Amendment approach to gun rights.
For the third straight year, the Trump administration has ramped up enforcement of unconstitutional federal gun control, according to the latest data released by the ATF.
Last year, the ATF investigated 35,790 firearms cases. That was on par with the 35,839 firearms cases the agency investigated in 2018. This after the ATF significantly increased the number of cases it pursued during Trump’s first year in office.
In 2016, the final year of the Obama administration, the ATF investigated 31,853 firearms cases. During Trump’s first year, the agency investigated 35,302. That was 3,349 more firearms cases than under Obama, a 10.81 percent increase.
Cases Recommended for Prosecution
The big jump we saw in 2019 was in the number of cases recommended for prosecution.
Last year, the ATF recommended 11,319 cased for prosecution. That compares with 10,691 cases recommended for prosecution in 2018, a 5.9 percent increase year-on-year. This continues an upward trend in prosecutions we’ve seen going back to the Obama years.
2019 – 11,319
2018 – 10,691
2017 – 9,591
2016 – 8,805
2015 – 7,516
2014 – 7,577
Since Trump has been in the White House, the number of cases recommended for prosecution has increased by 28.6 percent.
The number of cases leading to indictment also went up significantly last year. The ATF got indictments in 8,360 cases last year compared to 7,630 in 2018. In all, the feds indicted 12,441 defendants last year.
2019 – 8,360
2018 – 7,630
2017 – 7,137
2016 – 6,357
2015 – 5,503
2014 – 5,310
The number of cases leading to a conviction was up 20.4 percent year on year. In 2019, the ATF tallied 6,887 convicted cases compared with 5,485 the year before. In total, the federal government convicted 9,773 defendants in cases brought by the ATF.
2019 – 6,887
2018 – 5,485
2017 – 6,068
2016 – 5,517
2015 – 4,031
2014 – 4,482
The ATF also investigates arson, cases involving explosives, and alcohol and tobacco cases, but these make up a small percentage of the total. Under Trump, 92 percent of the cases investigated by the ATF have involved firearms. It was slightly less under Obama – 90 percent.
ATF enforcement of federal gun laws under Trump in year one increased at roughly the same trajectory as it did during the last three years of Obama’s second term and it has continued at roughly the same pace since. In other words, the NRA-backed, GOP protector of the Second Amendment has been no better than the Democratic Party gun-grabber.
Not only is voting 3rd party a bad choice, I'm none too happy with Lou Dobbs today for advising his viewers against voting to re-elect Lindsey Graham. Sure, Graham is a pain in the ass, not always trustworthy, fair-weather friend to conservatism. And it was fine to bring all that up if there were a realistic chance of another Republican challenge during the Primary. But Graham's the nominee now, and the Republicans need to keep the Senate. It's bigger than Lindsey Graham's sniveling spinelessness, Lou Dobbs. Geesh.
That is definitely a logical observation, and it is good with me.
So who does Lou want his viewers to vote for?