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380 Auto Chronograph results, various powders

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by WeeWilly, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I didn't, I sent a couple of emails and never got a response and got busy with other things. My LabRadar seems to jive very closely with the results crockett got with his on similar loads (UW +P XP).
     
  2. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Yes, similar to trying to ignite wet newspapers... :)

    Once you get it going though, well THAT'S AFIRE!
     
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  3. es 350

    es 350

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    Just a warning for those that may not know, back off considerably when switching to "mag" primers especially when near top end loads!
    From my experience they drastically increase pressures and normally don't add enough velocity to worry about except in large case with hard to ignite powder like 296/H110 etc.
     
  4. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I had a chance to finish testing the most recent round with WSF and W572. I am loading all of these on my Dillon powder drop on my 550B.

    Last time I forgot my OEM barrel at home, so all of the forgoing records are with my stock length Alpha Wolf barrel.

    I focused this reshoot with the OEM barrel, mainly watching for smiles. I really prefer using my OEM barrel first on any ladder as it starts smiling cases when getting to max pressures, kind of a canary in the coal mine. The AW barrel has never smiled a case, so I am playing a little blind mans bluff with pressures when testing new loads with the AW barrel alone.

    I started at 5.0gr of WSF with the OEM barrel. When I did the W572, I went another couple rungs up the ladder to 5.4gr and 5.6gr and recorded both the AW and OEM barrel velocities. As I expected, as I got to 5.4gr of WSF and 5.4gr of W572, I started to see a few smiles, but none as pronounced as the Underwood +P loads impart in my OEM barrel (consistently smiled).

    W572 - 5.0 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1035 FPS, SD 32, ES 85 - G42 OEM Brl
    W572 - 5.2 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1085 FPS, SD 38, ES 83 - G42 OEM Brl
    W572 - 5.4 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1097 FPS, SD 29, ES 72 - G42 OEM Brl
    W572 - 5.4 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1159 FPS, SD 16, ES 45 - G42 AW Brl
    W572 - 5.6 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, ** Don not use gross over pressure signs **
    WSF - 5.0 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1092 FPS, SD 29, ES 70 - G42 OEM Brl
    WSF - 5.2 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1123 FPS, SD 12, ES 27 - G42 OEM Brl
    WSF - 5.4 gr, 95gr PD FMJ/FP, .985" OAL, CCI SP, SA 1133 FPS, SD 18, ES 37 - G42 OEM Brl

    I am pretty sure both WSF and W571 will get me equal results to the Underwood +P XTP loads, when I start testing XTP's. It looks like I am going to settle on CFE Pistol, BE86, W571 and WSF for my final rounds using XTP bullets.

    After I am done with my workups and have selected finalist for my UW +P simulator loads for practice, I will circle back and do workups for the Lehigh XP and XD bullets.

    Phew.

    *******. Warning, the loads in this thread are my workups in my gun. Many are well over book loads and should not be used as a load guide. It is for your amusement and gratification only! Do not use these loads in you gun. You must work up your own loads and you must only do that if you have the required experience. *********************
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  5. Timothy Courtney

    Timothy Courtney

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    phew is right! will be interesting to say the least. if you have gel, would like to a see head to head of your final carry rounds.
     
  6. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I may do that, but lately things have gotten more busy than less. The good news is the puppy is well and other than everything being chewed, I am getting almost a full night's sleep.

    We just bought some land and after it is redrawn on the map, we will be building what is likely going to be our last house. I had to buy about 3x as much land as I wanted, to be able to end up with the plot I wanted. I will sell off the remaining three parcels after I get it redivided the way I want. Going to build a modern farmhouse, with everything exactly the way we want it (and for how we live now) and in a place exactly where we decided we wanted to be.

    The bad news is it will be a big time sink for the next year +/-. I will get the workups done and a final load decided upon, but I suspect gel testing (or any terminal ballistics comparisons) will have to be for someone else to get done.

    Some fun.
     
  7. Timothy Courtney

    Timothy Courtney

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    sounds good. btw, ive enjoyed the ride. will continue to carry my 42 and probably try some of your loads too.
     
  8. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    If you decide to use any of the above load information, you got to make it your load, not mine. :) That is, you need to work it up in your gun and be satisfied it is safe in your gun, based on your experience and judgement.

    I am pretty sure once I get to loading the XTP's with the above four powder candidates, I can get to similar velocities that UW delivers with their +P loads. I think the smiling (while likely not as consistent as UW delivers) will be very similar in the OEM barrel. I expect the XTP's will seal much like the Gold Dots did, which will get me over the hump with loads that are already published above. I guess this is my version of a copper crusher test. ;)
     
  9. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    WW, when you get done with the 380, what
    caliber are you going to do next?

    Do you have any 357 mags?
     
  10. Timothy Courtney

    Timothy Courtney

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    lol...38 special for short barrels would be a good place to start.
     
  11. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I do have a few 357's, but I suspect there probably isn't anything I can add to the last 75 years of the cartridge that was first loaded by the likes of EK. :)

    I think with the 380, there was fertile ground for running pressures up closer to 9mm (modern guns, etc), with 357M, kind of like 10mm, there are probably not a lot of secrets to be discovered.

    I still have quite a bit of work cleaning up and publishing the foregoing results in one concise thread, sans all the personal stuff, including getting those Lehigh loads done.
     
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  12. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    What kind of 357 you got.

    What we have now is better than
    anything they had before around 85.

    Thanks to JD Jones and Veral Smith,
    they kinda re invented the mags, we
    also have many new powders.
     
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  13. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Now, I have a couple of Rugers, one Blackhawk and one GP 100, a couple of Smiths, a Model 27 target gun and an R8. I traded my favorite 357 of all time, a Model 19. Probably the worst move I ever made with a gun. I was like JM with that gun. :(

    I have a 50 cal ammo box full of my favorite 357 loads. One day I will get back into those, one day. :)

    I think what happens is as you get older, everything takes more time. Kind of ironic because as you get older, you have less and less time... ;)
     
  14. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Just an update to my last test session posts.

    I went back through all the cases from my last tests and found 5.6gr of W572 smiled every single case. Most troubling is even the Alpha Wolf barrel smiled cases at this level. I personally have updated the report to reflect my opinion that 5.6gr of W572 is grossly over pressure and unsafe. I think the slightest weakness in a case head likely would result in a case head failure and kaboom in my gun.

    I also found an interesting result for my Kahr P380. I have not religiously shot all these tests using my P380. In this last session, I had enough extras that I ran them through the Kahr. When I went to disassemble the P380 to clean it I had difficulty removing the slide. Initially I wrote this off to grime from a lack of good cleaning lately.

    When I went to reassemble, the guide rod would not seat properly. What I found was the frame where the guide rod is cradled when the gun is assembled had been peened backed by the slide impacting it. I have seen this before with my G20SF when running nuke loads and using the stock RSA.

    I cut the peened plastic away with an xacto knife so the GR would seat properly and everything seems jake, but I won't be running anymore of these UW +P style loads through the P380. It will be normal pressure 380 loads from now on for this gun. I will probably just fall back to normal velocity Lehigh XP rounds.
     
  15. Timothy Courtney

    Timothy Courtney

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    Maybe CFE or BE 86 will do better.
     
  16. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Yes, I think I am down to BE86, CFE Pistol and WSF for my final workups. I am starting on the XTP flights today (loading them). That is why I wanted to do a detailed inspection of the cases, as anything that shows gross pressure signs with a PD FMJ, will likely not work at all with the softer XTP.
     
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  17. Timothy Courtney

    Timothy Courtney

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    Will be interesting to see what the XTPs do.
     
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  18. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I did a complete review to make sure I had not missed anything, before I started loading the first flights with the 90gr XTP's.

    I loaded up 5.0gr, 5.2gr, 5.4gr and 5.6gr of BE-86, CFE Pistol and WSF. I loaded enough to be able to do a complete string with both my OEM barrel and the Alpha Wolf barrel. I will use the OEM barrel first to get my "canary in the coal mine" reference point with regard to smiles and head expansion. I always see smiles in my OEM barrel first and I have reference cases from UW +P loads from the same barrel to compare them to.

    After looking back at all my results, I honestly don't think I will get to duplicate velocities to the UW +P loads with any of the above. It may be just a matter of how far into smile territory I am willing to go. So far, I have only had a few smiles that were comparable to the UW +P loads I have shot from the OEM barrel (at least once I got to the slower powders I am running now, with the AA #2, it was no smile to big smile in .2gr!).

    The good news is I think I will get close enough to have a practice load the is very close to my chosen carry load. If I could get the kind of consistency in pressures that UW achieves I might be willing to push far enough to duplicate the velocity because I think I am pretty close to what they are using burn rate wise, but the equipment they are using clearly drops very consistent charges, time after time, to get that smile consistency they achieve in my OEM barrel.

    I have them all loaded up, hopefully sometime next week I will be able to get down and test them. I have decided to use an local indoor range for all my tests from now on as it makes finding the spent case after each shot much easier. I just pick a quiet time and many times I am alone in the range. Previously I was using some land a friend owns or an open range spot and it can get really hard finding the spent case, these hot loads are taking them quite a ways.
     
  19. Timothy Courtney

    Timothy Courtney

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    Sounds good. I put down plastic to catch my brass on my range, but that's outdoors and in good weather. The older I get, the less I venture out. Really like the wolf bbl. It stays in the 42. Would be nice if you could run a few Leighs through before winter.
     
  20. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I am going to do the Lehighs, but as I am moving indoor for load development, it shouldn't slow things down much, at least and unless I slip and screw up the shoulder again. :( The house build is going to take a toll though.