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Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by glock20c10mm, Jan 15, 2010.
Nah I run 125 grain at 1550-1600 FPS lol 357sig>9mm xD
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Ppu 9mm nato is probably the hottest there is it’s basically 124+p federal hst/ where Winchester nato is equivalent to standard pressure hst in other words not really enough to notice
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I have seen interweb tests where the Underwood 125gr FMJ 357 Sig round got an average of 1620 fps velocity with 730 ft/lbs of energy out of a 5 inch barrel. My G31 currently has a 5 inch threaded LW barrel in it simply for the extra velocity. I also have a 6 inch LW barrel for the G31.
A better barrier penetrating FMJ round would get 100% better performance in meat when compared to a weaker penetrating FMJ round that didn't even make it through a barrier to hit the meat, see post #1815. The same principle applies to expanding rounds, again it's all relative.
I have fired this Underwood load out of my G20 with a LWD 10-.357 conversion barrel. Felt like I was firing a full 10mm load.
Yes I agree you are shooting top tier .357 loads. I meant in perspective to Speer Lawman loads in/357 Sig which are running 1350 to 1375 fps depending on the load / product number.
I've been dithering about bringing back the "furniture penetration" thread, started in 2010. It began as a way to exhibit bullet performance, or lack thereof, in all sorts of intermediate barriers. Over time, MacPherson (400+ reference points+ and formulae presented from Quantitative Ammunition Selection (700+ reference points) used water as a medium to test bullet penetration, a medium that anyone can use. Knowing velocity at impact, expansion and retained weight, it can be calculated to accurately predict bullet penetration in soft tissue, something clear gel can't do IMO.
Basically, Newton's laws of physics does not apply, to any significant value, in terminal ballistics; supplanted by newer laws of thermodynamics.
Furniture penetration thread began as a hobby experiment has since morphed into a very accurate prediction for bullet penetration, like 10% ordnance gelatin, in soft tissue penetration.
My CED millennium chronograph has ceased, second time, to function and I'm in the market for a chronograph that doesn't use an app for velocity display. One interesting test was a handloaded 9mm 124gr JHP with an MV ~1300fps, very close to 357SIG velocities.
Your hammer test also included Double Tap's 10mm 230gr WFNGC lead bullet didn't pass the hammer test, it was too brittle.
The furniture penetration thread has been resurrected, the last post related to the .357SIG and a response to unit1069's post...how interesting.
The 357 Sig is a piss-poor manstopper and so is the 357 magnum.
100%, Not really rail. A FMJ penetrates a bit more with more vel but 124gr 9mm isn't stopping inside a person nor is a 357sig, they just zip thru. No ballistic advantage. The magic energy dump does not appear, the bullet just exits the target a bit faster with more vel. Totally diff with jhp as a bit more vel can give a bit more perpetration in meat if it doesn't over expand. Always more about the bullet design than the vel.
Based on what examples?
I put a Lone Wolf 357 Sig barrel in my Glock 22 and these are 5 shot averages:
Speer Gold Dot 125 @ 1,363 fps / 516# KE
Federal HST 125 @ 1,385 fps / 533# KE
Ranger T 125 @ 1,389 fps / 536# KE
I'm skeptical that 500+# KE / 1,360+ fps has "piss-poor" incapacitation potential.
WHo said it did?
This test should shed light on 125gr Gold Dot penetration concerning 9mm and .357SIG, very little difference in penetration.
Amigo, Glad you brought this thread back. I was in on it with you from the beginning, and we had a blast with it all.
I want to say something to those who ask, "hey CM, why are most of your post deleted..?"
I can only give those who ask, this.. We were going through horrible sickness with our only son, and my Mother at the same time, and ended up 'losing them both,' as a good deal of you all here remember..
Glolt20-91, and a couple others were really good "brothers" to us through it all, I/we are very regretful.. Seriously! We have both remained good friends to this day in fact...
All I can say is that one night I was mad "at MYSELF" for stuff, (no one would understand, so I won't explain) and just went through GT and deleted a bunch of my post, Period!
All I can answer to those who have been curious... A man's head ain't right in the midst of 'these kind of losses,' and the hell we were going through in it all... So, that is it. Now to move forward.
Thank all of you, who back then, reached out to us and stood with us.
Amigo, I hope ya didn't mind we sayin this...
You missed the point. The round that defeats a barrier and continues on to penetrate a body will be 100% more effective than a poor penetrating round that "doesn't penetrate" the barrier.
If that's true then where does the popular 147gr 9mm at a 1000fps velocity and 325 ft/lbs of energy rank? Lol
No i didnt mss anything. In fmj, 9mm or 357sig, they all go thru about the same so a claim of 100% more effective, uh no. You just like pulling unsubstantiated % out of your butt rail.
No actually the 357 Sig penetrated 3 aluminum sheets the 9mm penetrated 2 sheets, the .40 and .45 penetrated 1 sheet, so no not all the same. And yes a bullet that defeats a barrier is 100% more effective than a bullet that.......never made it through the barrier, never touches the target, never does any damage.
Snce very few things are made out of 1/4" alum, I do t worry about things that are gonna happen. I actually font even u detstamd what the test is supposed to prove but shooting stuff is fun. So if they all go thru 1 sheet, not 100% more effecrive. It only becomes more effe tce after 3/8 thick plate. Yes if I need to defeat metal, I would reach for more vel, like 223.
Yes and after defeating one sheet the 357 Sig still has the full power of a 9mm, the 9mm has lost half it's power.