357SIG proving to be an unbelievable manstopper???

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by glock20c10mm, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    The “handgun velocities matter” crowd like to believe that instead of converting to heat, bullet kinetic energy is converted to gamma rays, that irradiate the target with an instantly lethal dose.

    A few shooting victims wind up getting transformed into the Incredible Hulk though... so there’s that.
     
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  2. Tokarev

    Tokarev

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    Maybe this will help:


    View: https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y


    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
     

  3. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Nah, if it continues on longer and becomes a legacy thread topic, it can be re-titled ".357SIG, in Remembrance" ... :p
     
  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Its a simple experiment to recreate. Just pound a bullet flat & feel how much heat there is. That is just from a few ft# from an 8# sledge.
     
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  5. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Interesting you mention that. (Anyone shooting steel can feel the same effect if able to immediately pick up a flattened bullet or bullet fragments, BTW.)

    I vaguely recall a scientific experiment done many years ago, where they fired bullets into a prepared medium and then measured the temperature change to the medium.

    I can't recall the specifics anymore (it was just one of the mildly interesting things I came across in passing while researching something else), but if I recall correctly, the lab was able to detect and measure fractions of a degree temp (F) increase in the medium. The explanation was that some of the kinetic energy of the bullet, impacting and then transiting the medium, was put to work in being transformed into heat, which was diffused within the target medium. Bottom line seemed to have been that a relatively surprising amount of "kinetic energy" was lost (converted to doing work) this way.
     
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  6. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    True and since the 357 Sig is the only bullet that gets hot when it hits something, you got it made with the always cool .22. Again it's all relevant.
     
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  7. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    I always get a kick out of some of the 357sig proponents that disdain the 9mm yet herald the 357sig, particularly when there is often a 1 grain difference in weight and maybe 150-250 fps difference in velocity.

    • 9mm 124+P @ 1200fps = wimpy caliber.
    • 357sig 125g @ 1450fps = death bolt that provides 'lightning incapacitation'.
    I guess that little bit of weight and velocity is where all the magic happens. This kind of thinking is why I can't take any of the more rabid 357sig proponents seriously. Personally, I think I'd rather have the few extra rounds of 9mm in the mag.
     
  8. OdinIII

    OdinIII

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    Why not a 380? Lighter gun and less recoil?
     
  9. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Because .380 isn't what's commonly considered a service/duty caliber and the difference between 380 and 9mm is far greater than the difference between 9mm and .357 sig.
     
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  10. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    Because this...

    While the velocity increase of 9mm over 380 is 'similar' to that of a standard pressure 9mm compared to 357sig, the 9mm is heavier (from somewhat to significantly heavier) than the 380. More variety of ammo exists (at typically lower price) and the 9mm tends to both penetrate and expand more so than 380. And also that it's not common to find a 380 with the capacity of a typical double-stack 9mm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  11. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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    Your answer got me thinking....I know the Germans ran 9mm hotter in their Lugers. I looked it up and they ran 124 grain ball up to 1312 fps. Getting close to .357 Sig velocities.
     
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  12. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Hey amigo. Remember my "8# sledge testing" on hard cast, back years ago on the famous,"furniture penetration thread..." ? Ha. I wish Glolt20-91 would bring that thread back.


    8# sledge on concrete shop floor.
    44 mag hard cast
    L to R
    250gr lead heads Keith
    Center-200gr Hunter Supply Pentagon HP.
    250gr ??? (forgot)

    The ones that do not "crack and split" with 4 hard whacks of the 8# Hammer of Thor test, WIN!
    Yes they are HOT, immediately after those 4 hits. Ha.



    !cid__IMG_20150208_231334438_ - Copy.jpg



    !cid__IMG_20150208_231424776_ - Copy.jpg





    CM
    :horse:
     
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  13. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Well, it can be an even tighter comparison, velocity-wise.

    The major American ammo makers are producing .357SIG 125gr that run 1350-1375fps ... and 127gr/115gr +P+ 9mm loads that run 1250-1300fps ... but the 9's are still denigrated.

    Personally, I'm not sure a small difference of 50-100fps is going to be earth-shattering, especially when you factor in the potential deviation that might be considered acceptable.

    Remember when the feds specified their then-new 135gr .40 duty ammo have a velocity of 1200fps, but the contract allowed for the velocity to be 1200fps, with an allowable +/- of 50fps? The Federal contract overrun hit the commercial market with a product description listing of 1247fps, while the similar Winchester Q4368 load was described (depending on the vendor) as producing 1180-1200fps. Who knows where they got their figures, though? They all would've fulfilled the contract specs of 1200fps +/-50fps, though.

    My point? Apparently the feds didn't feel that the "target velocity" of 1200fps, or 1150-1250fps, was problematic when it came to their duty ammo specs. The overruns seemed to sell pretty fast when that load was discontinued.
     
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  14. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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  15. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  16. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well lighter/smaller guns, blowback design can mean more felt recoil.
     
  17. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I think NATO 9mm is 124gr @ 1250fps but not sure.
     
  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    If your only goal is to penetrate hard barriers, yes, velocity is important. Why, because it creates the reqd heat. Other than that, hotter ball ammo doesnt get you much in meat.
     
  19. unit1069

    unit1069

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    Winchester makes a 124-grain NATO round advertised on the box at 1200 fps. Do you know who makes the NATO round going 1250 fps? I'm very happy with the Winchester version but would like the hotter round even more as long as it's reliable.
     
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  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Eo
    Made for Euro troops but not sure exact vel or if it is even available on the USA.